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00:01:23:05 – 00:02:10:04
Well, hello and thank you for joining today’s special webcast. Staving Off Culture Cracks Attracting and Retaining Talent Amid the great resignation, I am Francine Parham, senior Fellow in the Human capital here at the Conference Board. Our goals for today are why the great resignation is the biggest threat to businesses right now. How to avoid talent retention Myths The new employee Priority List What your people actually want in this new world of work and keys for implementing a systems level solution to retain and attract top talent.
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00:02:41:08 – 00:03:19:06
Excuse me to get the most out of this webcast, make sure to utilize the engagement tools located at the bottom of your screen using these can at you can ask questions to the presenters and download the presentation deck. Please join me in welcoming our presenters Katie Present and Tiana Mitchell, Associate principals at Daggerwing Group. Katie and Tiana, please take it away.
00:03:19:07 – 00:03:36:11
Well, thank you so very much, Francine. We are thrilled to be here. Hello and welcome. My name is Keep a PS In and joined by my colleague Tiana ritual. We are from the Daggerwing Group and we’re really excited to talk to you about this topic today, knowing how important it is and I’m top of mind for so many.
00:03:36:12 – 00:03:58:08
Before we jump in and tell you all the things that we’d love to tell you about how to work with your culture during this tumultuous time, just want to take a quick moment to plug your wing group and tell you a little bit about who we are. We are a global change consultancy that really focuses and prides ourselves on doing change right the first time and helping it stick by focusing on people.
00:03:58:12 – 00:04:21:06
We believe that change happens when people inside the company are ready to change, not when the organization is ready to change. So we use psychology, human centered design, many other techniques to be able to really tap into that human behavior to create lasting change. So I will pass it to Diana to introduce our topic today. Great. Thanks, Katie.
00:04:21:06 – 00:04:49:08
So let’s dive into the content. So the first thing here, you’ll see the biggest risk to businesses right now is retaining and attracting people. No surprise, we’re seeing a lot of surveys showing that recruiting is the leading concern of employers right now. And given the great resignation we’re seeing but we’ll talk about a lot today is what we’re seeing and how to use your culture to attract people.
00:04:49:09 – 00:05:14:11
So if we go to the next slide here, we’ll show some of the stats we’re seeing. So 95% of people are considering a job change right now. 46% are planning a major career transition. We’ve seen a lot of people throughout the pandemic think about what they want to do with their jobs. Do their current organizations align with their values?
00:05:14:11 – 00:05:46:08
They have some sort of purpose at their jobs. We’re also seeing one in three millennials are planning on leaving their job post-pandemic. So as the market’s opening up people who had considered leaving their jobs but put it on hold for job security are pulling out their resumes, dusting them off and seeing what’s out there. So, you know, as you can see by some of these statistics, the talent crisis is is widespread and it’s affecting employers all over the world.
00:05:46:10 – 00:06:21:01
There’s a lot of costs associated with these. So we know that it costs, you know, 1 to 2 times in our annual salary to replace employees. There’s generally a dip in productivity for those 6 to 9 months that they start, not to mention the impact it generally has on morale, your knowledge bank and overall culture. So what we’ll talk about a little bit today is where you should put your energy knowing the great resignation is happening, knowing some of these statistics and we really think that’s recruitment or retention.
00:06:21:01 – 00:06:44:08
We know recruitment is important as well, but focus on retaining the people you have because that is really going to do the best for you. So before we get into a little bit around what we think the best things you should do to retain are, First, have a quick poll. So of the things listed here, what do you think is the best way to retain your talent?
00:06:44:09 – 00:07:18:06
So give everyone some time to select their answer. Is it higher compensation? Is it promotions, more vacation time or supportive listening? So give everyone about 30 seconds to go ahead and choose their answer. Not that any of these things are bad, bad options, but there’s there are different ways to retain your talent. I know we probably all could go for some more vacation time right about now.
00:07:18:07 – 00:07:47:12
No one will say no to that. All right. We’ll do probably another 5 seconds for people to get their answers and. All right. So let’s see what we’ve got bit across the board here, but it looks like the majority of you chose supportive listening. And so when we talk about these different options here, it was a little bit of a trick question.
00:07:47:14 – 00:08:15:07
So we kind of view these as talent retention. So a little bit of a short term Band-Aid solution that we actually should be moving away from. Takeda’s point, no one’s going to say no to higher compensation or more promotions, but it generally doesn’t help in the long term. What we should really be focusing on is the best tool we have in our tool box right now, which really is your culture.
00:08:15:09 – 00:08:43:13
And so that is something we really firmly believe that growing is that culture is going to be the key to having people come and stay with your organization. We know culture drives engagement. It creates a sense of happiness and passion for work and impacts people’s intention to stay positively, impacts your business’s bottom line. It drives productivity. It’s all things you want.
00:08:43:13 – 00:09:11:07
But it’s not just about creating any culture. It’s about creating the right culture, one that’s going to keep people that’s going to engage them. So we’ll talk a little bit about what that is and what makes up those cultures. But first, I want to take a minute to reflect on what are the things that we’re seeing that are not keeping people there, that are driving people to leave their jobs and really spurring on this great resignation.
00:09:11:09 – 00:09:37:05
So we put our heads together and came up with a couple of different things that we’re thinking about, especially amid the last two years in the pandemic. And so we have things like lack of human connection, which we’ve all certainly experienced as our work environments are changing, we see some organizations not really focusing on employee wants. We we’ve seen this in what the future of the workplace looks like.
00:09:37:05 – 00:10:03:02
Some organizations rushing to bring that people back to the office a second they could a little bit disregarding that employees are used to this new way of working. They want remote work or they want hybrid work. We’re seeing higher productivity and the sense of being always on leading to mass exhaustion and burnout. I’m sure we can all attest when you’re at home and your computer sitting right there, it’s hard not to just jump right on.
00:10:03:02 – 00:10:34:09
But it does lead to some of those negative impacts later on. So, you know, all these things combined, they’re all a little bit connected. But what it really adds up to is cultures are not evolving fast enough. They’re not keeping up with employee needs and employee wants. After the last year and a half of immense change, the good news is, though, the companies that are evolving quickly, that are focusing on what employees need, they’re seeing a lot of really positive results.
00:10:34:09 – 00:10:54:09
So I’ll hand it over to you to talk through that. Yeah, Thanks, Tiana. So, yes, it is good news and I think probably it’s unavoidable that some change to your culture has happened. The pandemic was truly a once in a lifetime disruption to what work as we know it, and there’s no going back to the way it was.
00:10:54:10 – 00:11:18:12
So the good news is as cultures are evolving, we are seeing some some positive things happening. So first things first. One thing we’re finding is that is leading cultures that are evolving are leading to higher engagement. In fact, 2.4 times the amount of engagement. This was from a Gallup study that was conducted earlier this year. And what’s so important about that is this is the reason people stay.
00:11:18:13 – 00:11:47:14
It’s it’s it’s more kind of that that need that advance that Diana was talking about those things that people need that commitment that you’re going to get from your people when they’re highly engaged and so evolving and paying attention to that culture. Really cultivating it is one main driver to get there going hand in hand with that 2.7 times more likely to have higher discretionary effort and intent to say so again, going hand in hand, really putting in that extra work.
00:11:48:00 – 00:12:14:10
And we know and it’s not a secret that we did really achieve some pretty critical peaks and productivity over the last year or so. But this is really something that I think we can maintain or companies can maintain better if they do have that culture to match to match it. And then finally, we excuse me, 3.5 times more likely to have an inclusive environment.
00:12:14:10 – 00:12:35:02
And we know that this is another that was another game changer of the pandemic. In addition to the social unrest that happened in 2020 and sort of the great revolution that’s happening along the worlds of DEI and inclusion, these cultures where they are evolving that are looking at people as individuals, as humans, they are just becoming more inclusive environments, which is great.
00:12:35:02 – 00:13:00:04
It is what your company and your people need to stay and become to stay motivated with your company. So what we’re really thinking about is this new employee wish list, this new priority list, and it’s really flipping Maslow’s hierarchy of needs somewhat on its head. We’ve spent a lot of time, particularly in the H.R. space, thinking about getting our compensation structures right, getting our organizational structures right.
00:13:00:05 – 00:13:20:11
But those safety and security things are just not as quite as important as they used to be. As we’ve seen, the world of work shifting and the way it has. So, Tiana, I want to talk through four key things that we’re seeing that are really important to pay attention to when it comes to building great culture, those being well being, connectedness, growth and flexibility.
00:13:20:12 – 00:13:58:03
So I’ll kick it to you, Tiana Great. So the first one we have here is all around Wellbeing. And like we said earlier, you know, burnout is really prevalent right now. People are always on it is actually the number one reason people are considering leaving their jobs. People are just tired. Young employees especially, You know, we think about so many of those younger employees who graduated college and are joining the workforce in this new way of working and are struggling to determine how to work and how to balance.
00:13:58:03 – 00:14:17:04
And so this is something that we really need to consider and think about of how you’re supporting your employees wellbeing and keeping that top of mind, helping them create those space and those boundaries. And of course, we all look to leaders to help set the standard. There because especially with younger employees, you know, they’re there to prove themselves.
00:14:17:04 – 00:14:47:13
They want to do well, but sometimes that comes at a cost. If you’re not helping them create that balance. The next one we have here is connected to wellbeing in many ways. So connectedness, we see that development of relationships really contributes positively to wellbeing, but it’s a cultural lever in and of itself. And when we think about connectedness, we kind of need to think about two sides, so intentional as well as unintentional connection.
00:14:47:14 – 00:15:22:04
So intentional connection is a lot of what we already have, a lot of what we’ve been focusing on creating since our workplaces and work environments have shifted. Those are the more transactional things. The project meetings, the town halls, the staff meetings, the things that are on your calendar and take up a lot of our days. The thing that we’re really missing and need to double down on are those unintentional moments of connection, those that create, you know, really meaningful and fulfilling relationships.
00:15:22:06 – 00:15:44:06
And those are a little bit harder to create. You know, it’s not the virtual cooking class or the wine tasting. Those are great as well, but it’s the smaller group settings. Those things that you would get when you were walking to grab coffee or you sat by someone’s desk. And so there’s not one way to do that. No one size fits all.
00:15:44:07 – 00:16:05:01
It’s about thinking about what’s going to work best for your people, what do they want and what’s going to fit within the rhythm of your organization. And one thing that I have personally done over the last year and a half is throwing coffee chats on the calendar and, you know, having a morning meeting where we don’t talk about projects or work and it’s just catching up and having coffee.
00:16:05:01 – 00:16:29:01
And it’s been so energizing for me. I know a couple of our colleagues just have picked up the phone when a meeting ends early and just call someone and go on a walk and it’s finding those moments and times to really build bridges again and have that sense of connection at a really human level. So that’s one that we certainly want you to focus on.
00:16:29:02 – 00:16:53:00
Can you just walk through the next one here? I do, yes. So another key group, your cat might join the video. Another key thing to do we want to focus on is growth. So one of my clients really is focused in the pandemic and thinking about growth in terms of two ways. So how are we developing our people both vertically?
00:16:53:00 – 00:17:27:13
So how are we helping them continue to move up in the organization, get those promotion opportunities? And then how are we also helping them develop, becoming more skilled, building out their skills, becoming more well-rounded? And so that’s one thing. I think focusing on both of those aspects in your culture is key. So some interesting stats that we found 94% of L.A. professionals, this is thanks to a group called the Phosphate Group that analyzes the industry, said that professional L.A. professionals have changed their learning strategies in COVID.
00:17:27:14 – 00:18:00:02
Obviously, this is not revolutionary because we know it had to go virtual. But what is actually quite interesting is that only 5% found that they will that they will ever they don’t expect it to ever go back to the way it was. And I think this reflects sort of how work is changing in general. But if you think about that and you think about how that what that means for the growth of your employees, sort of traditional development model of whether it’s in-person trainings or formal coaching programs or mentoring programs, whatever it might be, is a little bit out the window.
00:18:00:04 – 00:18:24:04
And we’re looking at a new whole paradigm for how do we help employees grow and become who they want to be. When we think about vertically, there’s a real fear, and I know this is true of many of my clients, a real fear of if your remote, if you’re not in front of your manager’s face, is it out of sight, out of mind when it comes to promotions, when it comes to new opportunities for projects or what ever it might be?
00:18:24:05 – 00:18:46:06
And half of employees surveyed in this one particular survey that we looked at said, I need to overcommunicate my value, whereas before I might be able to demonstrate now, I need to to be able to articulate it and say it. So there is some real concern around fairness and how promotions happen when we’re in this completely flipped around world.
00:18:46:07 – 00:19:06:09
So thinking about the growth of your employees, both in terms of developing their skills, but then also how you move them up and move them within your organization is key. Yeah. And Katie, I think that’s a really interesting point about the being able to be seen to be recognize. I think that probably has some very interesting ties to the burnout and the productivity as well.
00:19:06:10 – 00:19:36:00
Really proving yourself when no one can see you’re working. So something interesting there as well. The last element we have here is flexibility. And so flexibility is something that I think everyone has wanted for a long time. It’s nothing new or surprising, but how we’re defining flexibility has shifted a little bit. So in the past, I think when we thought about flexibility, we thought about needs based flexibility.
00:19:36:00 – 00:19:57:04
So I used to pick up my kids from school. I need to go to a doctor’s visit. I have classes in the evening. I need to leave early for over the course of the pandemic, there’s been this rise of desire for want based flexibility. So maybe I don’t have kids, I don’t have anyone I need to take care of.
00:19:57:04 – 00:20:24:03
But that doesn’t mean I don’t want flexibility in my day. I want to be able to fit a workout in. I want to be able to take my pet for a walk. You know, maybe my energy levels are sporadic throughout the day. I want to adjust my work schedule a bit. You know, we’ve certainly seen people take advantage of working outside of the hub where their office is at, and they really enjoy that and want to hold on to that.
00:20:24:03 – 00:20:44:02
You know, is there a need for me to work in the same city that my offices do? I need to work from the office every day to be productive? And so I think that’s the shift we’re seeing as it’s going to be a combination of both needs based flexibility, but also want space flexibility. And they’re expecting that of employers.
00:20:44:03 – 00:21:09:13
The pandemic has truly shifted the way we operate and the expectations that go along with that. I personally know of friends and family members who as offices have been opening back up, really considering do I want to stay with a company that isn’t giving me the flexibility that I had over the last 18 months? And if they’re not willing to do that, should I look for an organization that has.
00:21:09:13 – 00:21:43:09
So this is definitely something we need to consider. And it really starts with listening and understanding what those wants are and then creating a culture and shaping a culture that supports that. So that is our our fourth element. Before we move on to our next topic, we want to do a little bit of a pulse here and ask you all to think about for your organization which of these four things is the one that you feel you need to address first or address most, which is going to be the most pressing issue?
00:21:43:11 – 00:22:14:08
So well-being, connectedness, growth or flexibility. So give everyone another minute or so to get their answers and you know, while we’re waiting for the answers to come in, I’ll say and it’s so easy for teenagers, sit here and list all of these four things. We know how hard it is. I know we have I worked hand in hand with a client earlier this year who was defining what flexibility meant to them.
00:22:14:08 – 00:22:33:11
And you would think it’s very straightforward. it’s you know, you kind of adjust for yourself and do what you want. It is it is complex. It is not easy. And there are ripple effects to every decision you make. So we know that it’s super easy to just say these things. It’s much harder in execution. So I certainly appreciate appreciate the challenge here.
00:22:33:12 – 00:23:01:12
Absolutely. All right. It looks like most of our answers have been submitted. So let’s go ahead and show our answers. And it looks like it’s a bit all over the board again, with the highest being in connectedness. No surprise there. I don’t think this is probably one of the topics that in talking with some of our clients and just amongst ourselves and friends and family is the one that people haven’t quite figured out just yet.
00:23:01:12 – 00:23:22:09
There’s a lot of different ways to do it, but what works for one person might not work for another. So no surprise there. And I think it’s fair to say, too, that the what we’re really struggling with too, is I think a lot of the things that we did at the beginning of the pandemic to create that connection we’ve done now, you know, we’re tired of this virus.
00:23:22:13 – 00:23:44:14
We’re tired of the, you know, the sort of enforced fun over Zoom or whatever it might be or online. And so it’s really trying to it definitely that challenge of sort of keeping that inclusion, that connectedness fresh is is something that companies will have to think about as they as they move ahead. Yeah, you certainly want connectedness to be energizing and not be a detractor.
00:23:44:14 – 00:24:08:05
So if it feels like another thing that you have to do today, another meeting you have to go to, that certainly doesn’t necessarily meet the criteria. So it’s about finding that right balance. I read an article months ago at this point, but it was actually saying, as we’re we have had the Zoom fatigue and video fatigue. What’s the right balance then?
00:24:08:06 – 00:24:32:14
One one article, it said 3 to 1, three phone calls to one video call. And sort of going back to the way we used to work before we had all this technology, because when you have video, sometimes you’re just watching yourself or, you know, worried about how you’re showing up rather than the connection, the conversation itself. So that was very interesting.
00:24:33:00 – 00:25:02:00
All right. So let’s move on to the last topic here. And it’s all about how you build that culture. Employees want, you know, taking into consideration that wish list, that priority lists, but more from an organizational perspective as well. And so how we think about this is sort of three, three faceted. So people processes and policies and it’s all about taking a holistic approach.
00:25:02:00 – 00:25:28:05
Considering all three of these and through the lens of your culture to build one that not only engages people and excites them, but keeps them there and retains them as part of your organization, So I’ll go through these one by one. The first one here is people, and then when it comes to your people, it’s all about listening, but not just listening, listening, hearing and acting.
00:25:28:05 – 00:26:00:01
I think one mistake that I’ve seen companies make before is they do a survey or they do focus groups and they’re taking the action to listen. But that’s sort of where it ends. So it needs to be that full scale. You take that opportunity to listen, you reflect back what you’re hearing, so they know, you know what we hear, you are listening to you, but then it’s about taking action on it as well and showing that you’re willing to adjust to flex to their wants, their needs, and create the culture that it’s going to work for them.
00:26:00:01 – 00:26:24:09
But for the business as well. You know, it’s about helping leaders. We know that leaders can make or break a company’s culture and sometimes its leaders don’t feel like they have the tools they need. They don’t really know the role they should play. So it’s about equipping those leaders and helping them understand their role and giving them those those tools to support the culture.
00:26:24:10 – 00:26:50:07
And then, of course, you know, some of those priority list items that we just talked about, wellbeing, connection and growth. It’s all about thinking through your culture and how it set up. Say, how are you fostering those? How are you making sure that employees feel that within their culture and having those opportunities? So these are some of the questions that you can ask yourself and the things to do for a people perspective to start shaping that culture.
00:26:50:08 – 00:27:12:11
Okay, You’re going to walk through the next to Yes, that’d be great. So after the people definitely come to the process. So a lot of the things that we’ve talked about have implications for the processes that you use year in, year out, whether that is, you know, your your budgeting process for the next year, your performance review process.
00:27:12:11 – 00:27:35:12
We worked with a client that had to completely revamp the performance review process based on where people were and how they could have those conversations and those collaboration conversations together. So the three kind of main areas in process where we encourage folks to take a look at first is to yantian as point. It’s your listening strategy. It’s not enough to just do a survey and a focus group and say, yeah, that’s good, we heard you.
00:27:36:01 – 00:28:03:08
It requires action and it requires a consistent continuous learning cycle. That’s something I know Tian and I are working on with the client right now is how you really develop that sort of continuous listening cycle because employees can’t just give input once a year in the enormous 115 question employee survey. I think we’ve moved away from that and now it’s even more important to have those intermittent pulse checks so that that process is really geared toward understanding where employees are at.
00:28:03:09 – 00:28:25:03
Second, we talked a little bit earlier about growth and equipping people with new skills. So this might be your sort of growth and development in terms of yourself as a professional. But then also we have to be honest and say there are new skills that people need for this world, for this hybrid world where people might be crossing time zones using different types of technology, different types of online collaboration tools.
00:28:25:03 – 00:28:43:07
And it is something that a lot of us are working on and working with in our various lines of work to figure out what are really the best ways for us to communicate with each other. How do we really do that in a way that can simulate as best as maybe we could in the past, that sort of in-person meeting experience when we need that?
00:28:43:08 – 00:29:10:02
And then finally, insurance and ensuring fairness and equity talked a bit a little bit about this, the sort of inclusive nature that has sort of come to the forefront as important, but then also has been sort of its hand has been forced somewhat by the pandemic and sort of reshaping how we work. So how do we ensure that our processes are inclusive, are fair, knowing that people are coming from completely different places now, They may have moved, they may have different rules, they may have different lives.
00:29:10:02 – 00:29:35:14
To Tiana’s point earlier about the, you know, the balancing that we’re doing between work and home, the situation might be completely different. So how do we ensure we’re checking ourselves and our processes to make sure that they really are inclusive and fair in the way that we want them to be? Yeah. And on that, saying that point on fairness, I think something that is always difficult is when you have an organization where people have different jobs with different requirements.
00:29:35:14 – 00:30:08:03
And so I think in some of those cases it’s also being transparent around, you know, you’re you’re trying to ensure as much equity and fairness as possible. But, you know, some jobs require you to be, you know, on a plant floor where others if you’re working from an office, you can be a little bit more flexible. So it’s also about acknowledging that and having those conversations and trying to be as transparent as possible, given that, you know, sometimes a job is requires something different than another.
00:30:08:04 – 00:30:27:08
Exactly. It’s such a good point. And I know we worked with so many clients, particularly last year, but into this year of who had significant frontline employee base, those that didn’t have the option to work remotely. And how do you support those people who are clearly going through something that their sort of remote, remote colleagues are not? So it’s such a good point.
00:30:27:08 – 00:30:56:11
And so through our final third element to take a look at are your policies. So making sure truly that the policies that you have that you put in place, I think particularly as you’re looking towards the future, future and perhaps you’re re-envisioning what your work model looks like, you’re re-envisioning your operating model, that future of work, whether it’s hybrid, whatever it might be, maybe your strategy has had to pivot or your business have had to pivot in the last year.
00:30:56:11 – 00:31:33:04
But thanks to the pandemic, the really making sure that your policies reflect the needs of your people in your business, have you outgrown them? Have you of them? Do you need to go back and have a look? I’m also making sure that you’re always incentivizing the right behaviors. Behaviors needs have changed. I was having a conversation with someone recently who really was talking through the importance of managers and how that role of the manager has gone from just the person who supervises your work to the person who makes sure you’re okay and makes sure that you have what you need in order to do your job in this sort of new world.
00:31:33:05 – 00:31:57:04
So that sort of incentive for managers to be to play that type of role in their direct lives is critical. So do our policies reward that? Do they emphasize those things for making sure that you’re really driving the right behaviors? And then Tiana brought up the point earlier about supporting leaders, knowing that they’re so incredibly critical. So having their buy in, it can’t be an entirely, you know, very top down approach.
00:31:57:04 – 00:32:19:00
You need to socialize the cultural changes that you want to make with your leaders, with your managers, and then with your organization to make sure that, again, you’re listening and you’re reflecting what the needs of the business and the employees really are. Yeah, And Katie, on the Leader piece, it’s also role modeling, too, right? You can’t have buy in if you’re not going to follow through.
00:32:19:00 – 00:32:42:11
You know, if you’re going to say we’re going to be flexible, you can come in two days a week and that’s okay if that works with your schedule. But then a leader is in five days a week that that sets a different expectation. So it’s also, you know, not just buy in, but also making sure that you’re having the follow through of those leaders as well and their role modeling and driving those behaviors because it’s all connected.
00:32:42:13 – 00:33:18:01
It’s such a good point. Absolutely. Well, in summary, and I know hopefully we’ve got some good questions to look at, but in summary, I know we’ve thrown a lot of information at you and the last 30 minutes or so, but to sort of wrap it all up together, we truly believe this is a complete paradigm shift and in how we’re thinking of work culture, considering the great resignation, considering coming through this pandemic and what the future of work is going to look like, knowing that we can’t go backwards, It’s a really doubling down on your culture through the lens of what employees need and what employees want.
00:33:18:03 – 00:33:38:09
It can no longer just be about what’s serving the business. We really have to adjust how we think, how we structure, how we build our processes and our policies to be able to accommodate that, to keep the people that we need to keep knowing that there is such a critical and and really, you know, brutal war on talent happening in this day and age.
00:33:38:09 – 00:34:04:13
So, Janet, any other closing thoughts before we open it up to questions now? I think you covered I think the key is really how you can leverage that culture, how you can focus on the people you have and retaining them and really looking through the lens of what they want and what they need. Well, that was great. Thank you.
00:34:04:13 – 00:34:33:00
So I’m looking at the chart here and have a few questions for you. I’m Tiano for Katie and Katie. So one person has asked here, they talk about burnout, you know, and that’s always been a challenge, right? We know that that’s nothing new. But can you share why it is even more important that organizations, leaders, etc. should really be paying attention to this now?
00:34:33:00 – 00:34:53:04
Katie, I can start and then you can add on. I think one thing we’re seeing and it sort of goes back to that we all of the things that aren’t working is the massive increase in productivity. I know we all saw the articles when we first change our work environment of productivity is up like mad. Like maybe this is the the the way to go.
00:34:53:04 – 00:35:21:12
This is working for us. But with that high productivity, it also led to mass exhaustion, mass burnout, I think faster than we’ve seen it. And without those opportunities to connect and have those energy boosters that you sometimes got when you were in the office, I think it’s something that we really need to pay attention to. The also the impact on wellbeing lately and just everything that’s happening in the world and the impact it’s having on people’s mental health.
00:35:21:13 – 00:35:46:08
I think it’s really a lot of those outside factors that we need to consider. So yes, burnout has always been something we need to be wary of and think about and think about how we’re addressing. But the high productivity, you know, the always on nature plus just everything that’s impacting our mental health right now and our energy makes it just more important than probably ever before.
00:35:46:09 – 00:36:00:10
Yeah, so true. I really wish. I know there are a couple hundred people on this call and I so wish could see you all and ask, you know, raise your hand if you’re tired. And I think I would I would have to believe that the majority of people would have their hands up. It’s, you know, it’s been a slog.
00:36:00:10 – 00:36:20:07
And I think to Tiana’s point, it is those that are high productivity. And then also just what we’ve been through, it’s been unprecedented. And to think that we’re fully on the other side, it at this point is probably premature. And so definitely that it’s just it’s created a different environment where we’re burnout is is just different and harder.
00:36:20:08 – 00:36:51:13
Sure. So thank you for that. So I’m looking at a question also here around and we talked a little bit earlier about some of the myths, if you will, but someone asked the question around excess, Would you agree that compensation package or a compensation package is a part of the culture? So good question. I would say it’s we think about that Maslow’s hierarchy again, right?
00:36:51:13 – 00:37:15:09
So it’s something that of course, someone will consider, and I think that’s part of the overarching employee experience. I’d say in terms of the culture. The culture is a little bit more about those behaviors in the mindset. So say my perspective is that it’s part of that overarching experience, but maybe not something that is the biggest part of the culture.
00:37:15:10 – 00:37:44:05
Yeah, and to get super to get super nerdy, pull up all of my psychology degrees and degrees and training. I would say those extrinsic factors such as compensation will only get you to so far. They won’t lead you to engagement, they won’t lead you to discretionary effort. They basically will only lead you to the point where whether or not people are satisfied or dissatisfied, fired, not that they’re engaged, not that they’re staying, not that they’re putting in that extra effort.
00:37:44:06 – 00:38:23:14
So certainly it’s a part of the experience that is, as Tiana said, and it will never not be important, but to be able to compete and really cultivate the type of culture that you need in today’s environment, you have to go pretty far beyond just comp packages. But it’s a good it’s a good conundrum. Yeah, Yeah. And we’ve seen a lot of research that has sort of said people will take a cut in their salary or not get a bonus or whatever it might be to work for a company whose culture feels supportive, where they have, you know, empathetic managers, where they feel really connected to the values and the purpose.
00:38:24:00 – 00:38:45:13
So I think that is is show something as well. You know, in terms of the hierarchy, again, people are really looking towards that purpose and the values, you know, just felt like a very. I’m sorry, Francine, Go ahead. no, no, no. Go right ahead. And then we go. We have a lot of questions here, ladies. Okay.
00:38:46:00 – 00:39:04:02
All right. I’m gonna make a very simple say. I’ll say it in a very personal story. I do know someone in my family who was offered a new position, higher salary, all of that, but had become so used to being able to flex as a as a work at home dad that didn’t take it because that job required him to go to the office.
00:39:04:03 – 00:39:26:13
So it’s a real. It’s a real thing to consider for sure. Yeah. People are making all sorts of choices that they probably, you know, wouldn’t have made in the past. But due to circumstances now, they have to. So a question that has come forth is around listening. And we talked a little bit of you both talked a little bit about the importance of really having a listening culture and taking action.
00:39:26:14 – 00:40:01:09
So, you know, the question often becomes, you know, how goes in the wrong. There’s always the loudest voice, right? So how do you you know, what recommendations would you give to those that are here with us today around not letting you know the loudest voice, you know, fill up the room and take it over and just ensure that as this you know, this person says that, you know, we are that an inclusive culture is really being created and that there is engaging, productive conversation that is occurring, that is occurring about this topic.
00:40:01:11 – 00:40:42:11
I can kick that off and then because I’ll kick it off with probably not not the not the right answer, but I will tell you, hiring an expert global change consultancy to do some of your listening for you to be that neutral. And I say that in jest, but also with some sincerity, knowing that what we find often is that when the listening comes from within, occasionally that’s where you, you introduce that that potential bias, where we I’ve seen it time and again, where leaders are looking for a certain thing out of the listening they’re looking for they have a suspicion about what’s happening and they’re sort of implying that confirmation bias where they’re they’re
00:40:42:11 – 00:41:16:06
trying to hear what they what they either want to hear or expect to hear. And so there is something to be said for having some external help to to be that list, that neutral listening ear, and to also play back with with direct quotes and honesty of what people are saying, you know, provide them that safe space to be able to really express themselves and then making sure that there’s sort of undeniable proof based on what people have actually said, to be able to, you know, to share back to the leadership to say, hey, we need to take a full and objective look at what our people are saying.
00:41:16:07 – 00:41:42:10
Yeah, I could see clearly. go ahead, Francine. No, no, no. Go right ahead. Loved your turn to perfect. So I completely agree. I think having that neutral party can be really helpful in sort of the how you collect that information. And sometimes that person can also help create a little bit of inclusion and say, great, let’s make sure we hear from this side.
00:41:42:10 – 00:42:03:14
I think there’s also other a variety of approaches or ways to do that listening. So, you know, surveying focus groups, you also do a little bit of a mixed medium to make sure you’re giving everyone the opportunity to share feedback in the way that they feel most comfortable doing so. And then the last thing I’ll say is also the cadence of how often you listen.
00:42:03:14 – 00:42:30:06
I think the more regular it becomes and more part of just their every day. I think that’s people who maybe aren’t used to sharing their perspective, you know, just becomes part of the rhythm and you’ll start to hear more voices and more perspectives. So so just, you know, when you mentioned, you know, going into organizations and from a consultancy perspective.
00:42:30:08 – 00:42:54:00
So when you sit down and talk with organizations, do you guide and coach them on, you know, recommending that they start with the people, they start with the process, they start with the call, You know, with a culture where, the policies, I should say, not the culture, but the policies, where do they start when they are thinking about a cultural transformation or shifting the culture, if you will?
00:42:54:01 – 00:43:27:04
Now, we always say start with people. We take a very human centric approach. Start with your people, start with listening and understanding. And then once you define what that that culture looks like, what their wants and their needs are, you can shift and shape your policies and processes to support that. But first you need to get a sense of what, what’s working, what’s not, where do we need to shift and what those behaviors are and mindsets that you’re trying to drive because those policies and processes are sort of that support system to help make it happen.
00:43:27:05 – 00:43:49:03
But policies and processes alone won’t get you where you need to go. Totally. I can’t tell you how many times we’ve gone into a company who’s asked for help on Boom A and then we get in there and we talk to their leadership team, we talk to their people. We have some focus groups and we realize it’s not really a problem that that’s holding them back.
00:43:49:03 – 00:44:17:03
It’s really problem B And problem and problem B are probably related, but by getting that, by going first to the people and sort of getting those insights out of a discovery process or a listening strategy, really then paves the way for a change. Now when you go into organizations or when you let’s talk about let’s talk about those frontline employees, because I’m sure with the work that you do that you are part of that population as well that you’re speaking about.
00:44:17:03 – 00:44:36:07
And there’s a lot of see, I’m looking here in the chat here and, you know, there’s a great deal of comments on the topic of burnout and frontline employees and how do you manage that? Because they have not had the time that many of us who are, you know, behind the scenes, etc., have had to kind of manage this.
00:44:36:07 – 00:44:58:01
As you mentioned earlier, I think, you know, they’ve just been running, you know, irrespective of what’s been happening in the world. What are some thoughts that either you or Diana have about managing this whole burnout factor for a frontline employees? Yeah. Yeah. I can, I can start with that just based on some experience I’ve had with clients.
00:44:58:02 – 00:45:21:01
And I think one area, you know, we’re seeing this a lot with frontline employees sales functions, which often are such a huge part of the organizations that we work with, you know, their their game has changed. They’re not as face to face with customers as they were anymore. And so that that has really changed things. I think that this might sound very, you know, woo woo or whatever it is.
00:45:21:01 – 00:45:49:14
But I do think that there is something to be said for acknowledging the challenge, like starting kind of from a naming what is true, which is in that burnout, which is you have as a frontline employee, you have been through something that is very unique, something is very challenging. That said, the talent shortage around frontline employees, as I’m sure we’ve all experienced, at least here in the U.S., although I would imagine it’s global, is pervasive.
00:45:50:01 – 00:46:18:01
This, you know, no matter where you go now, you are finding whether that’s in retail, whatever it is, customer service that that talent brand is is lacking. We’re just really missing that charge talent shortage. And so I think it’s it’s acknowledged starting by acknowledging it acknowledged acknowledging that challenge, appreciating what they’ve been through, through that burnout and finding those opportunities.
00:46:18:01 – 00:46:41:01
If it’s not time off, is it something else? Is it? I’ve heard of job shares starting to happen, splitting things out to make it a little bit more manageable. But again, I would lean back on the listening and doing some in-depth listening to those folks to understand what do you need in this situation, knowing what you’ve been through as an frontline employee over the last 18 months?
00:46:41:02 – 00:47:01:13
Yeah, and to your point, Katie, for some of those workers, it might not be as realistic to say you can start 3 hours later because there are shifts. You know, you can’t maybe do that for every industry and every type of work. So it’s about listening and understanding what would help. To your point, starting from that place of awareness and acknowledge it.
00:47:01:13 – 00:47:24:07
But what type of support do you need? What are you looking for? And then you can go from there. So so let’s talk a little bit and here’s a question in our chat as well, is that if you have so so thank you for this, Alison. You mentioned that, you know, you have are there companies out there that have very strong cultures, Right.
00:47:24:09 – 00:47:47:07
But they’re you know, their employees are still finding other roles, you know, and they’re going into other things where, by the way, P.S., they’re getting the higher compensation right. That some organizations just can’t match. So are there any thoughts you would have when you got you know, you’ve got all these ingredients that both of you are, you know, talked about, but it’s just not working.
00:47:47:08 – 00:48:14:01
What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, there was an interesting article. I’m blanking on where it was from, but talked a little bit about, you know, as you have people leave, should you just do you let them go? Do you try to keep them in? And it had a very interesting perspective of know if you have a really culture and people are still leaving, you know, when they leave, first start by asking like, what are you looking for and what are you getting from this organization?
00:48:14:01 – 00:48:45:02
Is it something we can provide if it’s a growth opportunity, you know, something that you can make work by just having that conversation, understanding what they’re looking for, Maybe there is a way to look for it in your organization. If it’s purely compensation based, you know, if you can offer that, maybe it is okay to let them go, take on that new opportunity, learn something, and then come back to your organization with additional skills, with additional experiences.
00:48:45:04 – 00:49:07:01
And the article that I mentioned really talked about maybe sometimes the best thing for your brand and that the relationship you have with your people is to say, if that isn’t something we can provide or offer you, that’s great. We wish you the best of luck hoping that one day you’ll return to us or, you know, send someone new our way.
00:49:07:02 – 00:49:32:02
But sometimes that is that’s the way to go. Sure is. Sometimes your that employee is going into is going to be a spokesperson or an advocate for the organization that they left. You know, those things happen as well. So what other one other thought that here is what are the what let’s talk about leadership of second right. You talk a lot about the employees and that perspective.
00:49:32:02 – 00:50:00:00
As you know, as a group. What do you or would you both of you believe or have seen that, you know, those exemplary leaders are doing, you know, in your work that is really helping the culture or helping the culture to evolve to the new way of working. Now, are there any best practices that you’ve seen out there or any role models that you think of that you’d like to share with the group here?
00:50:00:01 – 00:50:29:04
And you don’t have to mention names? Some examples I’m trying to think of like specific people that that I don’t know. Tiana, do you have something top of mind? I can tell you my yeah. Why don’t you start and then I can happen. Or better yet, what do you think are some of the things that leaders should be doing to really, you know, exemplify and help nurture and develop the right culture?
00:50:29:05 – 00:50:56:06
Yeah, I mean, one thing I. well, that’s true. Yeah. One thing. I think that’s true. That’s always been true. But I think now is more so than ever is. You know, we always say kind of like what What got you here won’t get you there sort of a thing. I think the idea of technical expertise over true leadership and visionary, like the ability to inspire people toward a vision could not be more important than it is right now.
00:50:56:07 – 00:51:22:00
And so really making sure that you understand that influence you have as a leader to set that clear vision. And I think clarity is is what people I mean, with all the ambiguity that we’ve all experienced in the last 18, 20 months, you know, leaders being able to provide a clear vision of what we’re doing and what we’re not doing is something that I think is more critical for leadership now than it’s ever been.
00:51:22:01 – 00:51:42:09
And to see honest point from earlier in our discussion of this role modeling, how do we make sure that the leaders are really exhibiting the behaviors that their your practice, what you preach? There really can’t be a say do gap anymore that needs to be you know, leaders need to follow through with what their opening and asking of their people.
00:51:42:10 – 00:52:04:05
Yeah. And the only ad I’d have there is showing up authentically. So I think that is something, as I’ve been reflecting over the last minute, is something we’ve seen some of our clients do really well, is showing up authentically and talking about what, you know, what challenges they’re having and can relate to their people in a way that maybe they hadn’t before.
00:52:04:05 – 00:52:35:00
And really opening up those lines of communication. So that is one ad I’ll make a, you know, just showing up in a really human way to thank you. That’s great. So my last question, so I want to make sure that I’m seeing some things here around the topic of well-being. So have you seen any organizations that have really, you know, practiced this whole, you know, thought process around or I would say beyond thought.
00:52:35:00 – 00:53:05:05
But implementation relative to ensuring that they’re paying attention and addressing, you know, this topic of well-being in a meaningful way. sorry. I think I had a little bit of delay. Did you I’m sorry, Could you just repeat that last part again? I’m so sorry, Francine. no, no worries. I’m Katie. I was just speaking of the topic of well-being.
00:53:05:06 – 00:53:35:01
And have you, you know, have you seen any companies that have successfully you know, we’re all in the process right now, but any companies that have successfully, you know, address this, you know, topic of well-being and not just address it, but actually have taken action. Yeah, I can jump in, Katie, with one client example we have who at this was at the start of the pandemic, but they sort of formed a group and decided this is something we we really need to address and get ahead of.
00:53:35:01 – 00:54:05:00
This is something that’s important to us. And so they pulled together several resources for their employees. They did a town hall where they a special town hall talking about it, recognizing the importance of it, that people were feeling tired and they pulling together the resources they need and they need those resources available. They created new resources. So, you know, best practices for working parents, for people who are caretakers, Well, what’s available to them?
00:54:05:00 – 00:54:27:06
What are things that they should talk to their managers about? They had external speakers come in and talk about some of the most prevalent topics with in regards to wellbeing and mental health and just being open about it and bringing it to top of mind, I think did a lot for the company as employees and for their engagement.
00:54:27:07 – 00:54:58:10
You know, I think oftentimes you have your your wellness resources available, but it’s not always talked about. It’s not the the thing in the spotlight during meetings. And they made an effort to do that. And I think it was it had a really positive impact. Yeah, And I’ll share another example. And it’s very, very similar to that because I think it’s it’s making the resources available, of course, but it’s also equipping people to know what to ask for or know how to navigate those resources that are available.
00:54:58:11 – 00:55:23:00
And so we did have a client who, again, sort of through the lens of a performance management conversation, we had sort of special targeted questions, the employees and managers, to make it easier to talk about well-being, you know, in a way that’s, you know, allows people to share or not share as much as they’re comfortable with. But to be able to really talk about, you know, what are they up against, what are their needs?
00:55:23:00 – 00:55:42:05
And it might be that it’s, you know, they’re fine. It might be that they’re not they’re not comfortable sharing whatever it is, but really just making the space for them to have those conversations. And then to Tiana’s point, making sure that there’s a really solid bank of resources that the company has put forth and has emphasized as being, you know, this is something that we care about.
00:55:42:06 – 00:56:12:00
Please here, here’s what you can do to to help you if you feel you need it. wow. Well, this was great. Thank you, Paul. Thank you for it. Thank you for providing this, you know, this rich conversation as well as the you know, the presentation itself. This was really, really good. So I let’s see here. So I am going to close it out the chat.
00:56:12:00 – 00:56:33:02
We have a ton of questions and you know, Katie and Tiana, we will share them with you, obviously. And you could make, you know, if you’d like to figure out a way we can, you know, to get some of those answered. But I think we we covered a lot. We covered a lot here. So here is Katie’s information as well as are Tiana.
00:56:33:02 – 00:57:07:00
And as I said, this was great. If you enjoyed today’s program, please visit Conference Board. That work back slash webcast for a full roster upcoming webcast. But this one was really timely and really appropriate and great information. So thank you. Thank you, both of you, for this opportunity. And thank you, Francine, for hosting us. So let me just close out with a few additional items for the viewers here.
00:57:07:01 – 00:57:30:13
So in addition, CEO, I’m sorry, in addition to this and let me just get our slides going here so we make sure that we have everything up here and going. Here are the upcoming webcasts that many of you can see relative to things that are coming up. There’s some information on the total rewards strategies for the future of work.
00:57:30:14 – 00:58:06:12
Wellness benefits are key. On November 3rd, there’s addressing social determinants of health and individual needs with health data analytics, November 10th. And then there’s also the Human Capital Watch impact of H Asia. I’m thinking about h.r. Of ai and h.r. are real benefits and ongoing challenges and that will be on november 16 of this year as well. So also in addition, i want to make everyone aware of ceo perspectives.
00:58:06:13 – 00:58:34:03
It’s a new monthly podcast, no longer than 30 minutes, which presents a curated list of top insights created over the past month by center. By the conference for the podcast is hosted by our CEO Steve O’Flynn, and the content is aimed at CEOs and their direct reports. The insights will not be facts, but insights derived from either those facts or our research.
00:58:34:03 – 00:59:11:03
Webcasts, podcasts. They’re like the moments. If you will listen and subscribe to this new podcast channel by going to our website or wherever you find podcast, my TV. So my TCB, we are proud to announce we have recently launched my TCB. My TCB is a new members only website, offering members a curated and personalized view of the full range of membership benefits available from the conference.
00:59:11:03 – 00:59:49:12
For it here you can view the latest research and insights, conferences, events, data benchmarking tools, peer networks and access experts. Basically in one centralized place. So please make sure that you check that out today and finally join us on December 15th for the Emotional Wellbeing and Work Conference. We will hear from forward thinking organizations about the strategies and tools that they are using to help their employees thrive at work and in life.
00:59:49:13 – 01:00:50:05
Registration is free for members of the Conference Board, so please join us. So once again in closing, thank you, Katie and Tiano. And thanks to all of you for joining us. Have a great day.