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The Conference Board: The New Realities: Employee Experience and Business Transformation

Every organization, no matter the industry or size, has experienced massive amounts of transformation over the past few years, and there are no signs of things slowing down any time soon. All these changes, whether it’s introducing a new operating model or technology, transforming the culture, revamping the employee value proposition, or implementing DEI and ESG strategies, have led to a fragmented employee experience.

This is causing natural human resistance to change to kick in. So as we look toward 2023, how can leaders continue to significantly transform their organizations for growth with an understanding of today’s employee experience requirements?

In this session at The Conference Board’s Engaged @ Work event, Daggerwing Group Co-Founder and President, Cheryl Ferguson shares lessons learned from recent transformations in which organizations needed to adapt to the new workplace realities. Watch below to learn more:


This transcript was automatically generated with artificial intelligence. It’s in the queue to go through a review with human eyes!

00:00:00:00 – 00:00:21:07

I’d ask the silly question how many have gone through transformation over the past couple years? But I think I know the answer. And so this session is very relevant for all of us. And we are privileged to have Cheryl Ferguson, who’s the co-founder and the president of Daggerwing Group and without any further ado, I’ll turn it over to you.

00:00:21:10 – 00:00:48:03

Great. Thank you. Great. You can hear me. Hi, everybody. So if you are here for the double whammy of how do you navigate all the things going on in employee education and do transformation at the same time you’re at the right place. So we’re going to talk about that big that big challenge. I can’t possibly top my colleague Katie this morning who described outgrowing using a mean girls movie reference.

00:00:48:03 – 00:01:15:10

So I won’t even try. If you want to know anything about Daggerwing, we’re outside. But we’re very proud to be one of the lead sponsors of this event because it is such an amazingly important topic. And so I’m bringing back this slide from this morning because we can’t get enough of this kind of thing. What we’re all here because we’re trying to navigate the day to day of all these huge, overwhelming issues and figure out what that means for how we attract and manage our talent.

00:01:15:13 – 00:01:41:08

Now, let’s think about layering on top of that. Big transformations, right? New CEO shows up, wants to do a big culture change. You have mergers in the works. You have to operationalize your NRG. You’re changing ways of working. So all of these great big owners changes are happening on top of this massive pivot that’s happened in the last three years.

00:01:41:11 – 00:02:05:02

And really, it’s about that change that’s happened, you know, since just 2019 and now and you’ll feel like you’re caught in this loop, right? Employees are so scared of change or we think they are. And then yet you in this room are impossibly responsible for we need employees to embrace for change. We can’t stay still. We’re not just bouncing back.

00:02:05:06 – 00:02:26:08

We are moving ahead. So that’s a huge challenge. So maybe you identify with one of these people. So that whole Scarlett O’Hara thing, which is it is just too much to consider, too much happening all at one time. I’m going to deal with all of it tomorrow. Or you’re like that scene from Apollo 13 where they have to get the lander, the lunar module home.

00:02:26:08 – 00:02:58:05

So they just dump every trick they have on to a table and say, let’s fix it. Right? So that’s the kind of that’s the MacGyver situation. Those of us who are now sort of dealing with the fact that just a few years ago, what worked and transformation is different. So, I mean, that’s really what I’d like to talk about today and share some specific examples is that because there’s been so much change in employee experience, we have to think about what needs to change, about the practice of change management and being effective.

00:02:58:07 – 00:03:16:04

Right? So I think we we know this, you know, we’re we’re going to tough it out here. So one thing that hasn’t changed is human brains, right? So people still intellectually, they know that change is good, right? We’re going to make these changes. It’s good for our brand, it’s good for our business. But for your career path, it’s good.

00:03:16:07 – 00:03:44:10

But human brains are wired to resist change. We’re going to push back no matter what. And we’re all, you know, all of us who have done change know that employee resistance to that change is one of the hardest things to get over. Need more complicated now because there’s what, five different generations for a lot of companies in their workforce and a lot of those newer generations of younger ones, they really feel like they have a right to speak up.

00:03:44:11 – 00:04:06:13

And so if they’re resistant, they’re not just passively resistant. They’re not the quiet quitters. They’re the they’re vocal about it. So, you know, we not only, again, bring this back from this morning, too, because not only has Maslow’s hierarchy flipped on its head and you’re dealing with that on a daily basis with talent and people want to know what kind of an impact you’re going to have on the on the planet.

00:04:06:13 – 00:04:31:11

And, you know, are you is an inclusive, are you belonging? All those things are going to be important, but they’re also going to be important and change the other thing that we’re seeing that’s flip, that’s like the upside down from Stranger Things is the fact that, you know, we were already seeing a command and control and that sort of top down thing, it was starting to collapse, obviously, you know, before the pandemic.

00:04:31:12 – 00:04:50:08

But we’ve now seen it flip on its heads and employees think they’re at the top of the food chain. They’re closest to the customer. They’re the ones making the product. Everybody below them exists to enable them to build good jobs. So these are some of these big pivotal shifts. And in the midst of that, what does it mean for change management?

00:04:50:09 – 00:05:11:01

I’m not here with stats we’re going to talk about for samples for friends. These are not all of the trends either. For that we thought were relevant. We’d love to share what we’re seeing and you know that. So that might be useful and bring some case and sample to the forefront. So we’re going to talk about what’s changed about listening.

00:05:11:02 – 00:05:47:05

We’re going to talk about this idea of the cascade top down and leaders are pushing messages out what doesn’t work about that anymore? We’re going to talk about the idea that one size fits all messaging and message consistency can be a problem. Now we’re going to talk about the fact that, you know, for a lot of leaders we’ve been so worried about, you know, that what they’ve been going through, dealing with hybrid and everything, we’ve kind of cobbled them and we have a lot of companies, but there’s not enough leaders that are ready to take So and we’ve come up with four pieces.

00:05:47:05 – 00:06:14:12

These are real companies or composite companies. So what technology company that’s changing so fast that needs a new culture, a health care company, Like every health care company going through a big operating model transformation, a manufacturing company that’s got their 2030 ESG plans and they’re doing a lot of big things. And now they need to put into the organization and packaged goods like all packaged goods are doing customer centric transformation.

00:06:14:13 – 00:06:47:05

So let’s use those as some of our example. So the first is the old ways of where leader listening can create failure risk. Let’s look at what we all used to do just a few years ago and see if you identify with this. The executives create their vision and they know that getting employee input is important. So, you know, they might reach out to some high performing employee, they might decide to do some focus groups.

00:06:47:08 – 00:07:09:07

Why don’t we run five focus groups? You know, why don’t we do a couple in each region? So, you know, all together we’ve maybe talked to 50 employees or we look back at our employees, hear surveys, and then when we launch a big transformation, here’s the new model. Here’s a new thing we’re all going to get behind. They stand up and they say, we heard you, we listened to you.

00:07:09:07 – 00:07:38:05

We understood you. And so here’s what we’re going to do, right? So the problem is that that just doesn’t cut it the way it did even a few years ago. So, you know, just paying lip service is checking the box. We ask them the right questions. We talk to some employees. That alone does not do the trick. Leaders, you know, we all we all know in all kinds of like marketing and sales, we say like, don’t just cherry pick the data that you want.

00:07:38:05 – 00:07:56:14

You have to actually what does the data say and do that Leaders? Leaders are a lot like that. Someone asked the question in the DIY session is like, what do you do if leaders don’t want to do this? And so we have the same thing. Sometimes we have avoidance. People are not paying attention to what employees are really saying.

00:07:57:00 – 00:08:23:10

Employees don’t want to just be consulted. Don’t patronize me and say, You listen to me and I go Do what you were already going to do anyways. Listen to me. I know a lot and actually act on it. And that’s what I’m expect from you. And then, you know, leaders need to source more input. Like you can’t just say, okay, we’re going to do a survey that’ll take three weeks or we’re going to do a couple of focus groups and we’re gonna have a small representative.

00:08:23:11 – 00:08:47:12

So what does that mean? So let’s look at a company that technology company, doing a lot of change fast, had a lot of younger employees and there was, you know, they needed to do a culture change, but there was tension in the organization, a lot of tension. And part of it is, is it that they needed to go from we heard, you know, you said and then we did it.

00:08:47:13 – 00:09:08:06

So a lot more proof. Don’t tell me. Show me. So you know, their culture change thing for sure. We’ve all been through this right? So we’re not going to collaboration. We’re not going to process. We need to get there are people managers are overwhelmed and they’re in the dark. We need them to have direction. You know, we’re all about short term.

00:09:08:06 – 00:09:31:01

We need to be more about long term. We don’t even know what our values are and how to live them. We have to be clear about what that looks like. So I’m pretty sure that almost all of you, your culture, this is your this is your frontier, right? This is everywhere you’re going. So one of the things that we did bring to the table, people ask me details about all the technology, but I knew something called Ramesh.

00:09:31:04 – 00:09:51:06

And so instead of doing focus groups and instead of just doing surveys, it’s a way of bringing it together. You can invite up to a thousand employees at a time. You ask them questions, they answer. And, you know, we used to do workshops and you put everything on the wall and somebody’s job was to go and group the stickies into common themes.

00:09:51:09 – 00:10:13:10

Well, this technology automatically groups everything and gets the top, you know, eight or nine answers and then people vote on it. And so you get this percentage and then it’s something pops up that all of a sudden people are disappointed in something else in the company. To change the question on the fly, you can do things so you can get kind of this fall and want richly.

00:10:13:12 – 00:10:36:11

And many of us, we don’t have time. We don’t have we first of all, we don’t have the luxury of listening to 50 people in a company with tens of thousands. And we also don’t, you know, the static ness. The other thing that’s really important about this is that this allows employees to feel heard. Right before we used to say we gather a representative group of your peers together for a focus group.

00:10:36:13 – 00:10:57:05

Yes, I do. I know my peers were in the room. Those were hand-picked favorites. And then when you do a survey, people feel so anonymous, almost invisible, so people can see that their opinions matter in this kind of a format. So if you’ve used it, I would encourage you to look out into it. We’re really getting some good success with this.

00:10:57:05 – 00:11:21:05

So again, hundreds of voices. In just three days we uncovered some really big disconnects. They didn’t know the difference between how employees felt so strong that their connection to the company was their people manager. Yet people managers felt like they were at the end of their rope. They were tired of being kept in the dark, so they learn things that they had not learned before.

00:11:21:09 – 00:11:45:14

So they were able to really pivot to, We hear you. You told us what to do and we did it. So they did that more specifically. And they actually changed the leaders changed a lot of their behavior. So they started to be much more proactive about what they pushed out about strategy and explained about the company. So that would be an example where like the difference in listening made a difference in what the business said.

00:11:46:00 – 00:12:06:10

I’m glad someone here said nodding about Ramesh and someone asked a question later call. So then let’s talk about the cascade. Right? So what used to happen before was, again, leaders there, they have a town hall and they say this is our vision. And then they tell their their senior leaders, okay, this is your job. You’re going to cascade these messages to the team.

00:12:06:13 – 00:12:29:09

And then the poor beleaguered people manager who has the toughest job. Right. Because it’s their job. They have to do the heavy lifting of pushing out the messages and trying to drive all these behaviors. And then maybe you had a select group of people again, you know, let’s handpick some people to be champions and we’ll feed them some information and we’ll get some feedback from them.

00:12:29:09 – 00:12:52:08

Right? So that would be like a nice to have sort of things. So what we’re seeing now, how then and now is a span of three years, so there’s too much confusion about role clarity. So the other day a client said you’re trying to do a distribution list and we don’t even know who’s on the list. So we’ve been if you were trying to do the Cascades, there’s been so much change in companies, you don’t know who people are, not sure who they cascade up and down to.

00:12:52:11 – 00:13:16:00

So that’s going to be a problem. And the messaging is like that old fashioned game of telephone. And then those of you that were born after 1970 might not remember when we actually paid a string to ten pants and tried to be Alexander Graham Bell. But it’s that idea of the dilution of the message gets worse and worse and employees employees are just not able to filter out what isn’t specifically for them.

00:13:16:03 – 00:13:43:05

And again, executives sometimes can’t help themselves when they’re talking. They’re sharing their vision. They’re talking like they’re talking to the street, they’re talking to organizations and partners. Like they’re just talking at such a big sector level and they’re not getting to the what’s in it for me. So what is different about now? Let’s look at a company that made bottom up foundational in how they did their transformation as opposed to that top down cascade.

00:13:43:05 – 00:14:08:11

So instead of like a top down camp sort of approach, they really dialed up, wait, like, did they have top down? Yes. But they they definitely really dialed up bottom up as not a nice to have, but a cornerstone, a key thing. They invested time and effort in having a change champions group and managing them. And they didn’t just go after high potential people.

00:14:09:00 – 00:14:31:05

You went after the chatty people they fought for. Who is a good connector? Who is the person that’s sometimes gossipy at the virtual watercooler? A little bit too much? Who? Someone you know, who a plain language speaker who’s not going to be pinky in the brain about why they’re in this group. They’re just going to want to share that information.

00:14:31:07 – 00:14:48:12

And and so and they you know, they they met twice a month. They were very religious about it. They didn’t say this is the last thing we do. They said this is the first thing they do. And they were able to get a lot of they felt a lot of really positive momentum and positive impact because of doing that.

00:14:48:13 – 00:15:11:10

All right. Next, what employees demand personalization, too. So think about the recommendation engines on a lot of websites. Think about, you know, when you’re shopping for a car and you know, you get a different message than I get. So like the world is all about personalization and relevance and yet we are, you know, one size fits all that a lot of our messaging.

00:15:11:10 – 00:15:33:10

So, you know again let’s let’s to really change starts with like there’s the executives again in that town hall thinking like I’m going to have the town hall. I’m going to tell people what’s going to change or that everything’s going to be good. And then, you know, and then maybe we took that vision and maybe you adapted it for different functions, or maybe you adapted it for different regions of the world.

00:15:33:13 – 00:15:59:07

But then you have to be strict. We have to be strict about our message delivery. So everybody is getting the right same message. Right. And that’s just not going to get to the level of relevancy and personalization that people that that you need to drive change, especially now when people are feeling like and it came out in a DIY session, is I don’t have to be a conformist.

00:15:59:07 – 00:16:22:08

I’m bringing my own self, I have my own feelings, I have my own opinions. What’s what’s important to me is, is important no matter where I am in the organizational structure. So leaders need to be more storytellers who can help people choose their own adventure, who can help navigate a little bit more. And we have to think more about that two way communications.

00:16:22:11 – 00:16:42:07

And a lot of times people are equipped to deliver the message and they’ve got a Q and A document they can stick to, but they don’t they’re not sort of trained on like how do I engage differently? So the example you wanted to bring in was, you know, a company like many companies, they’re trying now to operationalize their ESG.

00:16:42:08 – 00:17:01:14

They’ve done they’ve told the Street what they’re doing in sustainability. They pulled the government, you know, they pulled those people. But now they’re bringing in the House and they’re now starting to talk about each individual. What does that what does it mean for them? And of course, sustainability means different things to different people. So how do you navigate that?

00:17:01:14 – 00:17:17:02

So, you know, in this case, it was like you train a leaders train, but not just on one set of messaging. How do I talk 1 to 1? How do I talk to a small group? How do I talk to a large group? How do I talk to different demographic groups? What’s different between like a boomer and a Gen Z?

00:17:17:02 – 00:17:41:12

What’s important to them? Give me the tools, give me video, give me snippets, and then how do you engage them and start asking the questions upfront so that then you can tailor the messaging for them so it can be most relevant is not very revolutionary, right? It doesn’t. And maybe there’s the things you’re doing, but we’re seeing a real shift from the rigor of like messaging.

00:17:41:12 – 00:18:07:14

Consistency is so important to who we dialog more relevant messaging. That’s what’s going to stick because with something like sustainability and some of these other topics you’re talking about at this event, people can’t connect their personal vision, their personal why to the why that you have. You’re not you’re going to you know, you’re not going to get the adoption, you’re not going to get that synergy and they’re not going to go along for the change that you want to do.

00:18:08:00 – 00:18:29:05

All right. So then the last one here and then we can open up for some questions is, oh, so this is just the summary of the personalization. Again, is that because employees are not going to be engaged and motivated training people to deliver that those messages? And then this case, it did have they felt like this got the messaging out faster.

00:18:29:05 – 00:18:47:09

So the storytellers first of all, had a really positive reaction. They felt that this was much more valuable training than being given a toolkit saying like, read this and deliver this, which is sometimes the case. And to be honest, when that happens, so then and then employees felt like, okay, I’m hearing the messages that I want to hear.

00:18:47:13 – 00:19:10:01

Sometimes I want to hear about what is the science doing. So I want to maybe some people want to hear what can I do personally? Some people want to say, how is this going to have a macro impact on the planet? What can our company do with it encourages others in our category to make changes. So there was this breadth of things that were going to convince people that sustainability was important, and that’s how that worked.

00:19:10:03 – 00:19:33:02

So then the last one is not enough ready to lead leaders and I don’t and I’m talking about that. You know, there’s the C-suite and there’s that 100, 300 level there. And it’s not that they’re not that leaders. It’s look what they’ve been through, protecting the safety of their people and rapidly adapting to all this change and all of those things.

00:19:33:02 – 00:19:55:07

So it’s not like they have not been busy. And of course, they’re still trying to figure out, you know, making money and driving growth. But in terms of being leaders that are ready to not just people to be much more innovative and to really drive change, we’ve seen a deficit. I’ve talked to executives and they say I can’t ask my leaders to do any more.

00:19:55:07 – 00:20:14:10

They’re already so traumatized. Right. Well, that’s just the road to hell if that that’s just not going to allow you to grow. So we’re either coddling or protecting or seeing in some organizations, certainly not all. But again, executives, you know, we all think executives have the right stuff. They have that, you know, they have information that everybody else doesn’t have.

00:20:14:13 – 00:20:41:13

There’s that certain sort of sequoia that they got them to the C-suite. So they are making these big decisions. And then they say the next level, you need to adapt, you need to do this. And then and then but but mindset and behavior change for all your employees is dependent on how good they are at that. So let’s look at you know, what this means is that, you know, even though, yes, they’re hitting their numbers, they might be paralyzed a little bit by status quo bias.

00:20:41:13 – 00:21:03:14

Right. This whole idea of it’s not that broken, everything’s fine. Why do I need to change dramatically? I’m hitting my numbers. We’re seeing some growth. We’re getting back to normal. So they’re not feeling that urgency. And you’re not getting the point is, is you’re not you don’t have enough leaders that can make transformation decisions empowered to make that impossible possible.

00:21:03:14 – 00:21:38:12

So, you know, so this was the case was a company that wanted to actually instead of saying, okay, we’re going to give our leaders a break, saying, no, we’re going to dial off the challenge. So we’re going to create more leaders that can make the impossible possible. And that was, you know, how do we piloted a program where they took a small group of leaders and they gave them an impossible task, something that would stump the C-suite, something really challenging and and and gave them some tools.

00:21:38:12 – 00:22:02:10

And it wasn’t so much that they solved the problem, but it was the destination. How do they act as individuals? How did they act as a group? And the idea that being given something where the bar was raised so high, how meaningful that was for them having the CEOs spend time with them and reinforce what they were doing and listen and give them feedback.

00:22:02:12 – 00:22:26:05

And so, again, this was this was so successful that there’s been a decision to scale this approach. And so part of their drive for competitive advantage is instead of saying was limits to what leaders can do to drive change because they’ve already lived through so much change, is that we can absolutely challenge them and get some of them to that next level.

00:22:26:06 – 00:22:57:01

So those were the four trends that we thought could be helpful, instructive, relevant to some of the things that you might be going through, you might have experienced over the arc of the last four years, all now open up for questions. Does anybody have any comments? Have you been through something similar? Anything you can add to this discussion?

00:22:57:03 – 00:23:31:14

I’ve got some colleagues with me too, so in case I get a chance to talk a little bit more about how in practice, how to balance clear, consistent messaging with personalization. You mentioned training leaders to actually communicate that you expand. Sure. I will start. And then if one of my clients likes it. So it’s not like it’s not like you don’t have a bank of approved messages that go through email and go through, you know, you definitely come up with what your messages are, but you can match up an employee or a group of employees their priorities to a group of messages.

00:23:32:02 – 00:23:52:13

So you may, you know, you may go with some employees and they again, to the sustainability topic they might care more about what can they do personally like what does it mean for me or you may have other employees they want to know, how big is this? Could this be So you have a bank of things and you in the training, you go through scenarios with them and it’s kind of if then right.

00:23:53:02 – 00:24:18:06

If people are talking about this, then you can talk about this. Here’s a bank of messages, here’s a bank of video clips, here’s the information you have. So the idea is to train them to recognize what those needs are first, you know, to ask some probing questions or to know more about the demographics of the group or the regional priorities of the group and then be ready, but to equip them so that they can customize.

00:24:18:09 – 00:24:42:01

So it might be ordering. So in a presentation they might deliver the same, so everybody might get the same messages, but the order, how much information is given? The example might be the same. You don’t want people going rogue, but you do want the first message that’s delivered to be more relevant, to be more personal, especially if it’s trying to get people onside with something like sustainable or DIY.

00:24:42:01 – 00:25:02:05

But it also could be like, think about when you’re doing work changes, right? And so people don’t look at it. They might say, That’s logically great, but the first thing we did, one and the first thing people said was like, But who am I going to sit beside now? Like, I really like who I work with now you’re going to create this cross-functional team and I get it and I’m sure it’s a privilege to be on that cross-functional team.

00:25:02:05 – 00:25:29:07

But I like my team now, right? Or so they say, things like that. We didn’t once and people get upset because, you know, their first question was voice, we’ll get free parking. So I think that, you know, so so sometimes you when your plan this great change that’s great for your business you know you think about that scarf model and people’s brains and they go to the things that are going to be important to them and they can’t get past those things and listen to the bigger picture till their personal priorities or address.

00:25:29:08 – 00:26:05:00

Colleagues, do you have anything else to add? Any what we did with one client when they were actually bringing everyone back to the office to Sheryl’s point of change strategy, what’s going on? We actually even gave managers a like the Cheryl’s point of an event. So you don’t know how people respond. And the way the company had done it was they sort of cherry cherry picked the segment of their employee base by who they wanted in the office and who did it they didn’t want in the office for various reasons.

00:26:05:01 – 00:26:25:07

You couldn’t control which one group you were going to be, and you gave managers a handbook that basically said your person might say that because we didn’t know someone might be thrilled to go back in the office, someone might be terrified to go back to the office. Maybe health and safety concern might be a personal life concern. So we trained them how to respond to all those different scenarios and ask the right questions to get to what is it?

00:26:25:07 – 00:26:53:11

And it’s what is concerning me about this. What do I need to you know, what is the person telling me? Listen appropriately to be able to say, what are your needs that you are afraid might not be met by this scenario, that you’re going to be confronted. So just a practical examples. One way to think in other questions, I think it’s a little bit like this.

00:26:53:12 – 00:27:11:10

What Katie was saying is that, you know, people first of all, while in the example that I showed about yesterday, is that the conversation didn’t start with I’m here today to talk about, you know, I’m here today to say, you know, I can get to it. I’m here today to talk about sustainability and this is what we’re going to do.

00:27:11:10 – 00:27:36:14

It started with Pat and we go out to see this one. Tell me, what what does sustainability mean to you? What do you what’s your feelings about the priorities that you’ve heard? What are you already doing? So it was a little bit of like asking questions first so that they could then gauge, okay, this is a group that’s going to care about, you know, like one of the responses was, if we do this, others in our category are going to do this.

00:27:37:00 – 00:27:58:12

And if our entire industry changes, then we can make a real meaningful difference for the planet and for some groups. That’s very important. And one of the other answers is, okay, actually, I want you to come next week with your own idea. This is the forum we’re going to have for people to have their own individual ideas because they didn’t feel like they could participate themselves.

00:27:58:13 – 00:28:32:01

They weren’t going to get onside. So there was sort of anticipating that bank of things, but not everybody’s trained in to make communications. What makes people a great leader and how they get ahead isn’t their ability to listen and instantly respond and adjust their messaging. So some of it has to be like the role playing in the training, their Yeah, the example we brought was for us.

00:28:32:02 – 00:29:03:11

Yeah, sure. So it was a group of leaders and I think part of it was knowing that they want to we need to have more leaders that are equipped to make decisions come up with innovation. I think there is a sense in some companies that are very hierarchical that there’s a certain magic that C-suites allowed to do and other people are, you know, that whole right stuff thing.

00:29:03:14 – 00:29:28:04

And so, you know, in a lot of ways you move up the ranks is that I’m going to do these things. And then I’ll get promoted to the level that I can do this as opposed to when I’m down here, what can I do? So I think they wanted to recreate C-suite type impossible decision making for people that were several levels below that, see if they could inspire was definitely an experiment, see if they could get it and it did it work?

00:29:28:07 – 00:30:01:12

Good people rise. What did it mean? Did it become like some sort of a reality show where they turned on each other? Did it turn into it, which it had the potential to do? And it became very competitive that they work as a team. And again, they might not have been able to solve the task. And the task was something that, you know, I can’t reveal it, but I remember saying, whoa, you know, it was a pretty impossible task and it was more helping them say, I don’t just have to live in my silo, you know, starting to think about what would have to change for that to happen.

00:30:02:00 – 00:30:22:07

Okay, well, who’s in charge of that? What can we control? What can we not control? What are all of our options? And to think bigger than their overall and their own silo and their own team. And I think that when we think about the last two years, there just hasn’t been the opportunities to do that right, which is, again, bouncing back or focusing on the here and now and getting to that growth.

00:30:22:07 – 00:30:47:05

And we’re not thinking about things that are a bit risky. And I think the idea was to create some safety about it and having the CEO there and head of h.r. And some other senior leaders there sent a real signal to the organization. So there’s a lot of interest in doing that. Kind of a you know, leaders are excited about that idea and they’re excited.

00:30:47:06 – 00:31:13:12

And the other questions i can ask for. Anybody else have any similarities to. So I appreciate that you spoke about the cascade for organizations that are like very hierarchical. How do you kind of get started on convincing people like, maybe we should do work from the local level and and bubble up will be a good first step there.

00:31:13:14 – 00:31:45:00

So, so you know, so so a bad first step would be to say we’re not going to do a cascade right. So again, so I think it’s I think it’s what you dial up. So instead of the local and the bottom being small, I think it’s making sure that you’re putting more resources and time. You have a steering committee, that steering committee in the middle, they often spend a lot of their time thinking about what they’re going to push up to executives and push out a function leaders and not what they’re going to push down to those people.

00:31:45:01 – 00:32:06:05

So I think that that’s the rigor what we have found in this organization. It also is a very hierarchical organization, was, you know, they just, you know, just go to town with project management. And so they’re a very project. So they project manage the heck out of it. And they schedule like six months of twice a month and you have to submit this.

00:32:06:05 – 00:32:27:07

And so things that felt very familiar to them, they dialed those things up and that actually helped it. It happened, right? So I think part of it is and then giving it enough time to work, right. So I think that that is definitely and then looking for the proof points and the feedback to bring back to the organization.

00:32:27:09 – 00:33:11:05

That got me good. Okay. Thanks, everyone. Thank you.

Cheryl is the CEO & Co-Founder of Daggerwing Group – taking great pride in helping clients break the cycle of change management failure to see their transformation visions realized. For more than 20 years, Cheryl has worked globally on the people side of business transformation challenges ranging from corporate customer-centricity shifts and talent strategies to enterprise-wide culture change and the introduction of new operating models. She has deep specialization in helping marketing leaders at Fortune 500 firms transform the role of marketers and modernize marketing practices and capabilities.