Transcript
This transcript was automatically generated with artificial intelligence. It’s in the queue to go through a review with human eyes!
00:00:00:00 – 00:01:03:12
Hello, everyone. Thanks so much for joining. We will get started in just a minute or so with a webinar as we see people finally end to the session. Thanks so much. You can see some familiar faces. Jack, Thanks so much for joining us once again. It’s great to see you here. We really appreciate that, everyone. We’ll get started in just another minute or so as we see people filing into the session.
00:01:03:14 – 00:01:41:00
Congratulations to those of you that were early, those of you that are right on time. Thanks so much for joining. We’ll get started in a few more minutes. No, not a few more minutes. Just another minute or so. Just hold on a little bit. All right, team Maria Rashmi, let’s go. Right. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Fifth and final element of the Future of Work webinar series.
00:01:41:02 – 00:02:00:11
Truly appreciate you being here today and joining us for our discussion of building trust every day. So how do we do that? We’ve got some great ideas for you. Our presenters today are Maria Dodd. Maria is a principal on our team. Maria, why don’t you introduce yourselves? Thanks, Chris. Hi, I’m Maria. I am a principal at Daggerwing Group.
00:02:00:11 – 00:02:24:12
I’m based in the London office, so you’ll hear my British accent. I’m actually a chartered organization psychologist, and psychology has been my passion through and through my career, my personal life. So I’m just fascinated in psychology. And more recently I’ve been really studying into the neuropsychology, the brain, and how we can really use that and leverage that for greater impact in terms of how that affects behavior change.
00:02:24:12 – 00:02:46:01
So I’m excited to be able to share some of those thoughts with you today. Yeah, absolutely. And so glad that you’re bringing that to the conversation. Also joining the conversation today is Rashmi Shanker, Roshni, thank you so much for being here. You’re a managing consultant with Daggerwing. What should we know about you? Well, hi, everyone. I’m Rashmi.
00:02:46:01 – 00:03:12:15
I started my career in the big bad world of tech. But then it was my love for people that made me pivot. And I switched over to the change management side of things. And over the last couple of years, I’ve been really focused on this idea of how do we really create cultures and processes within companies that make good culture and make work, work, make culture stick.
00:03:12:17 – 00:03:33:00
So I’ve written really working on that over the last three years. Perfect, Perfect. Just in case you aren’t familiar with who Daggerwing is Daggerwing Group or a top ten global leader in Communications and Change Management Consulting. We love that about 70% of our clients are in the Fortune 500, but we work with organizations both big and small.
00:03:33:02 – 00:03:52:05
Whether or not they’re on that Fortune 500. And we’re helping quite a few clients right now in helping them think through how are they both rethinking the future of work and also how are they building trust? In fact, if you remember back if you joined us for the previous sessions, these are the five areas that we’ve been focusing in on on this webinar series.
00:03:52:05 – 00:04:10:20
How do you rethink the future? How do you double down on culture and asking yourself, where where is my culture actually failing me? How do you assess and prioritize? How do you take all the possibilities of how you’re going to get to the future and focus in on the few that will move you forward? How do you bring leaders and employees into that as well?
00:04:10:22 – 00:04:28:11
How do you invest in leaders? That’s what we talked about last time and making sure that your skilling up your leaders, that you’re making sure that they’ve got this, that they have both the information and skills they need to lead in the way that you need them to to get to that future. And today, we’re going to talk about how do you build trust every day?
00:04:28:16 – 00:04:47:20
How do you do it from an organizational level, from a leadership level, and from a people manager or direct manager level to do that? We’ve got three really good questions you should be asking yourself. Maria, want to take that? Yeah, sure. And we built this webinar on just asking ourselves these questions and really testing ourselves in these three areas.
00:04:47:22 – 00:05:09:17
So first of all, are you eroding trust? Second, do you have a game plan for building trust? And then third, and finally, are you giving employees a reason to believe in the future? So I’m going to delve right into that first question as a staff. So the times that we’re living in now, and especially with the shift to remote working, has really given us a wake up call.
00:05:09:19 – 00:05:37:24
And the need for trust is bigger than ever. And the ability to erode that trust is as never been so dangerous, I guess. So I wanted to share and start with a definition of trust, a commonly used definition of trust, which is here on the slide here. So a psychological state comprising the intention to accept vulnerability based on positive expectations of the intentions or behavior of another.
00:05:38:01 – 00:05:58:10
And what can we take away from this definition? There’s two things that really strike me in this. The first one is around that need the that both parties or parties involved need to have those positive expectations of one another for trust to exist. And then even more importantly, I think, is this piece around vulnerability and that existence, that acceptance and embracing vulnerability.
00:05:58:10 – 00:06:23:07
And actually without vulnerability, trust does not exist. And vulnerability is a really difficult thing to show, to demonstrate and to accept in others. And actually, if you move on to the next slide, in fact, the research does show, unfortunately, and it’s highly likely that we are eroding trust here, we can see that just one in three employees report trusting in their leadership of the organization.
00:06:23:07 – 00:06:44:02
So it clearly is an issue. Whether that’s unintentionally, I’m sure we’ve got the right intentions, but what are we doing today that is eroding that trust? And trust is really difficult. I think, you know, it is one of those softer elements. It’s hard to measure. It’s intangible. And I think everyone is quite clear on the indirect impacts of trust.
00:06:44:02 – 00:07:05:10
It makes sense. We need that. But I think when it comes to organizations thinking about trust and therefore putting some investment into that trust, which is the right thing to do, perhaps leaning into the wrong areas of trust as a starting point, the more like the processes, the compliance departments and, you know, a tendency to fall into control and control is not trust.
00:07:05:10 – 00:07:27:03
And actually by trying to put in place that trust through control measures, it could actually be doing the detrimental thing and actually eroding that trust. So we’ve got three questions that Rashmi and I have been debating over the last couple of weeks, and we’ve got some examples from things that we’ve seen with our clients I wanted to share with you as well.
00:07:27:03 – 00:07:54:07
So three questions for you to think about in terms of whether you are eroding trust. So during these times of crisis, do your managers suggest your leaders yourself prioritize productivity over the well-being of the employees you know, it’s quite natural and understandable in times of crisis to really leave into survival mode, into crisis mode, to making sure that we’re keeping the business afloat during these times.
00:07:54:09 – 00:08:14:09
But that can often be at the expense of, you know, everything that we know about employees, their productivity, their pride in their work, their levels of engagement. And they’re in discretionary effort that actually makes our businesses thrive. So that’s one thing to think about. Are we prioritizing productivity over all that good things that we know that our people will bring us?
00:08:14:09 – 00:08:47:11
That leads to productivity. Secondly, are we using online meetings at all to keep a virtual eye on our employees like this is the equivalent of walking around the floor and looking over people’s shoulders at their screens. And we all know the effect that that could have. In fact, I know a client quite recently who was going through a huge software upgrade, and the rumors in the organization was that this software upgrade was, in fact to put some spyware onto people’s computers so that the the organization could keep an eye on their employees as they work from home.
00:08:47:13 – 00:09:10:15
And then lastly, this question Are we truly giving sympathy to the fact that our homes are becoming pressure cookers and our families are often just colliding into our lives in one place? Are we truly having sympathy for all of our employees and ourselves in that situation? And so those are three areas, and I’ve been debating them. And I know you had some you had some stories as well from working with your clients.
00:09:10:15 – 00:09:31:20
Rashmi Yeah, you know, recently, especially the first two with prioritizing productivity over health and then the lack of empathy of there’s things going on at home. We’re working with a tech client right now and you know, obviously because of the pandemic, they, you know, everyone’s going through a digital transformation. So this client has to produce more, they have to sell more.
00:09:31:24 – 00:09:50:16
But the resources are still finite, right? The number of people who are working in the organization. And so the team has to perform at higher levels. What’s funny about the particular team we’re working with is that they’re all, you know, they have young children, you know, everything that’s going on with virtual schooling, and yet they have to meet higher demand.
00:09:50:16 – 00:10:19:08
So they’re burning out. And we keep hearing them say, this isn’t sustainable, this isn’t sustainable. And it’s getting to a point where, like, how do you balance that rate of we have to maintain productivity, get those business results, but what about the well-being of our people and how do we address that? So it’s been interesting. Yeah, definitely. And I’m been working with the company recently and we’ve actually been working with them for a couple of years to put in place some large scale talent mapping exercises, all for the right intentions.
00:10:19:14 – 00:10:44:23
You know, let’s look at our talent base as make sure we’ve got the right people in the right roles, that we can develop the talent, nurture talent, make sure that we’re retaining them and all of those things. More recently, come 2020, you know, the organization faces huge budget cuts, which does unfortunately come with unavoidable job cuts and it also coincided the same time that we’re really going out and launching this new organization.
00:10:44:23 – 00:11:03:21
So quite understandably, we had reactions in the organization saying, well, hold on a minute. This is all about you know, it linked it to the budget cuts and it’s really hard. You know, what can you do? You can’t avoid the budget cuts. You’ve got to look at your business. You’ve got to keep keep on doing the right thing.
00:11:03:21 – 00:11:22:03
Even when they’re painful decisions to be made. You also have to keep doing the right thing for your time of the day. She called, You can’t divorce the two. So how how do you deal with that? And I think the only way, you know, to deal with it in terms of head on, let’s get ahead of it and let’s think about this.
00:11:22:05 – 00:11:45:15
We know it’s unavoidable, but let’s get ahead and plan for this, which leads us nicely into our second question. Rushmore, which I’ll I’ll let you take over. Yeah. You know, inside of the plan. Right. And we talked to leaders so many times. Good leaders are like, of course, we have a plan. We’re you know, we’re thinking about all the things, especially right now, where leaders are being forced to create plans for everything.
00:11:45:15 – 00:12:03:05
There’s there’s so much social and political unrest going on. So you have to have a plan to make sure that you’re addressing, you know, inclusivity in the workplace. You need to think about the fact that we’re in a pandemic. So our clients are coming back to us and saying, you know what, We have manufacturing employees. They have to come in to work.
00:12:03:05 – 00:12:25:06
So we need a plan to make sure that we’re thinking about their safety. And then there’s this whole idea of, you know, the future of work, you know, like that we’re talking about and everyone’s working from home. But what do we do when you have these huge tech clients, for example, that are, you know, in San Francisco, they’ve got the shutdown on site and now all their employees are working from home.
00:12:25:06 – 00:12:41:20
How do you keep that culture? And so they have to put together a plan for that. So everyone’s creating all of these plans. And the question that we want to ask is, do you have a game plan for building trust? And what we’re finding is that more often than not, leaders are like, of course we do. We’ve got plans for all these things.
00:12:41:20 – 00:13:07:06
Of course we have a plan to build trust, too. That’s the right answer. So if we move to the next slide, what we think is, you know what? Yes, that’s right. You do need that game plan. But what we think is you have to shift the focus and put the focus back on your managers. It’s like, you know, think about the game telephone that we play when we’re kids, where you you’re showing up, you’re showing your message and you’re saying, I’m building trust because I’m going to lead through this.
00:13:07:08 – 00:13:27:22
You know, all of the changes that are going on right now. But you need the people in the middle to make sure that they’re conveying the same message, that they are amplifying the message and making sure that they’re building trust with those employees. So we really want to emphasize that in this moment, the focus has to be on those managers and supervisors.
00:13:27:24 – 00:13:55:15
If we move to the next slide. I also think that, yes, most plans include managers and supervisors, but like I’m saying right now, especially especially important because those managers are feeling even more vulnerable than before. We’re finding that almost half of the middle managers supervisor level, not only are they not trusting, you know, like their employees, Maria, like you were saying, they’re walking around.
00:13:55:16 – 00:14:14:14
You can’t walk around. So I’m going to create online meetings so that I can see what you’re doing. I don’t know if you’re watching Netflix or if you’re actually doing your job, and they’re finding these weird ways to deal with it. And so it’s not just a matter, though, of a manager is not trusting their employees. What we’re finding is that they don’t trust themselves anymore.
00:14:14:16 – 00:14:37:21
Half of managers these days don’t know how to manage their workers remotely. And that’s the problem. It’s, you know, you’re dealing with so many different things, but you’re also having these people who are like, I don’t even know if I can do this. And so we really want that focus to shift back to empowering these middle managers and supervisors and making sure that we’re listening to them.
00:14:37:21 – 00:15:03:24
So if we move to the next slide, what we really wanted to talk about was what can you do? How do we kind of fix this? Where is the pivot? First thing we want to talk about is really listen to what managers have to say and how things are Shift going and how they’re feeling. Today’s I think, a great example in the US of a moment in time where there’s social unrest, people are feeling really heavy.
00:15:04:03 – 00:15:25:23
It’s not about creating that plan, it’s really listening to your people. How are they feeling? What are the kinds of things that they’re kind of dealing with in their day to day and how do they need to address it? And and really active listening as the first step and acknowledging that these are real issues, these are the things that you’re facing such a long way.
00:15:26:00 – 00:15:51:18
Part of that listening also. Then you start to uncover as a leader, what are those gaps that are plans from a year ago that were focused on these managers are actually missing. So where are the skills that we need to develop and making sure that our plans are now addressing the specific skills that are necessary today and then creating that game plan that then goes ahead and empowers those middle managers and supervisors.
00:15:51:18 – 00:16:26:05
So it’s really about listening to what’s happening today, making sure that people can build trust not only in their employees but themselves, and focusing on those middle managers. Yeah. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I mean, that leads so nicely into our final question is around. You know you need a plan for sure and as well as I know that we said that we’re adding and you need this and as well and as well but you really do need to give employees a reason to believe in the future in order to, you know, for this to work.
00:16:26:05 – 00:16:53:05
So if you go on to the next slide, there’s there’s research that has shown that there’s these four key universal human needs that are needed based on research over the last eight years in terms of all the crises. And what I know is these are very human traits. They’re very human elements, and therefore they again fall into that difficult category of being quite soft, quite intangible, difficult to measure, difficult to know what to do about it.
00:16:53:07 – 00:17:14:05
So I wanted to delve into the science behind some of this stuff around the truth about human beings and behavior and what I’ve been learning about and some of the psychology stuff that I’ve been researching. So first of all, trust and we’ve been talking about trust for the last 20 minutes. But coming back to actually the good news is that human beings are naturally wired trust.
00:17:14:05 – 00:17:38:00
We are built to trust. Although that trust is very fragile, I think it can break very easily, but we can work on intentionally building that trust, and I think it’s quite powerful to come back to that definition at the beginning around how are we making those positive expectations happen between parties and how are we allowing and embracing vulnerability which keeps coming through?
00:17:38:00 – 00:18:04:07
So the good news is, you know, human beings are very trusting beings. As long as we nurture that trust and we don’t break it. So with this power, they’re in that same way in compassion, good news. Their empathy and compassion has been proven that it is something that we can trade. So it’s like a muscle in the brain, it’s a muscle inside, and you can work on having compassion, having empathy, and really work on that with leaders and managers.
00:18:04:07 – 00:18:31:11
So it is something that can be can be worked on, stability. So everyone knows that uncertainty is stressful. I think that’s that’s probably widely known. But what I found fascinating is it’s actually been proven to be more stressful, to be to have uncertainty and instability is more stressful than actually knowing that there’s a negative consequence in the never know negative outcome of that happens.
00:18:31:11 – 00:18:57:19
So putting in place that certainty, even when it’s not necessarily good news, is going to relieve a lot more pain than just leaving that uncertainty and instability out there. So that’s definitely something that we can take away as leaders, managers in doing and then finally, hope so. Again, good news here is that human beings are actually we’re rational beings, but we’re incredibly wired towards optimism.
00:18:57:19 – 00:19:21:15
And the hope and actually optimism is a bias that we have in us as human beings, as individuals. It’s been proven. Yale’s study found 8% of us have this what’s called an optimism bias, where we tend to look inwardly and think we’re okay, we’re going to get through this is part of survival is what moves us forward. And that’s especially strong in Gen Z.
00:19:21:15 – 00:19:51:06
Individuals. And even though collectively, I think that optimism collectively, especially in certain cultures, can erode and look like there isn’t hope and optimism privately as individuals are pretty optimistic. So you can lean on that, that hope and the optimism. But you’ve got to give it and fuel it with rationale. And I think it was Leonard Lansing from Harvard Business School who said, you’ve got to have rationale for hope.
00:19:51:06 – 00:20:22:02
You’ve got to fuel that hope with rational understanding of why hope so, you know, take that hope and optimism of people, but give them that logical rationale for why they should hope and what they should care. And your people will come along with the journey. So that leads us right back, I think, to the beginning of where we started with this series, where we looked and we questioned how are we rethinking the future of work and, you know, taking all of this on, like, are we ready to do it?
00:20:22:02 – 00:20:46:05
We can’t just sit back and do nothing. Things are not going to go back to the way they were before, but it’s all in our grasp to get ahead, get the intentions to know what we know about people and to really come through this together. But we do need to rethink the future of work. So that’s the last question that ties all of this together is how are we rethinking the future of work and tastic?
00:20:46:05 – 00:21:13:22
Thank you so much, Maria and Rashmi. And we have a few questions coming in and we have a few minutes to answer them. So Maria, Question for you and you are not prepped for this, so get ready for this one. What does brain science have to say about what executive leaders are doing in the areas of trust? Is there anything special about I mean, reframe it a little bit.
00:21:13:22 – 00:21:37:14
Is there anything special about what executive leaders should be thinking about and how they lead and how we trust or don’t trust? Yeah, interesting one around. The first thing that comes to mind on that is the need for alignment. So leaders as executives, as a group, the more that they’re aligned, the better that decisions, the more effective they are.
00:21:37:14 – 00:22:06:08
I think we know that I was actually on a calls just last week where we studied that in that you can actually work on team chemistry and synchronizing yourself physiologically getting in sync spending that time which I think talks to, you know, the power of working as a group to make sure that you are in sync, not just from the Harvard business point of view, which I think is even harder during these times where we’re all working.
00:22:06:09 – 00:22:56:10
We’re not necessarily in the boardroom and not necessarily in the golf course, etc., etc., having those side conversations. But what I learn is there’s real power in that synchronous synchronization and so working in terms of the synchronization for alignment, for decision making and everything that that entails, don’t don’t underestimate that synchronization makes for a better leader. And then a second secondary, I’d say, and this is probably broader than just leadership, but you know, there’s there’s a lot of research and studies that prove that the way that we frame, how we approach things when we’re communicating, when we’re interacting with each other, with peers, with the organization, the employees, the way that we do it can
00:22:56:10 – 00:23:35:21
either put people into a threat state or a reward state. The threat state being everything in us as human beings is saying, I need to run for the hills. I’m the defense, I’m in defense. I need to defend myself. I need to look after myself. What the hell is going on here? Yeah. And you know, by framing things in a way that, again, probably coming back is that vulnerability pays and that positive expectation, pace and building trust, framing things in a way that actually opens up people to leaning in and to not seeing it as a threat, but seeing it as opportunity and really engaging those reward states of the brain is another thing that’s
00:23:35:21 – 00:24:00:20
really powerful in terms of bringing people along the journey. Thank you for that, Rosemary. Question for you. When you think about managers and your focus in on managers needing special attention right now, how have we helped organizations or managers deal with that lack of confidence in their own capabilities? Or do you have any examples that you can share?
00:24:00:20 – 00:24:26:09
And Maria certainly open that to you as well. But Rashmi, anything come to mind? Yeah, and you know, I think what’s been interesting lately is the idea that we’ve been focusing on keeping it human right, and it’s listening to what people have to say and I think empowerment comes from that. We’re gathering those insights from managers, these employees themselves, and saying, Here’s what you’re doing really well.
00:24:26:10 – 00:24:46:18
This is what’s working. These are those strengths. This is what you have to continue to do. And here are the things that we can work on. But, you know, Chris, you and I, and we’re having a conversation recently about how it can’t just be a one off thing that you empower leaders once a year, once a year, and have these kinds of conversations.
00:24:46:18 – 00:25:08:16
So it’s really about creating those regular cadences and those regular check ins and making sure that they’re equipped with the things, like I said, that they need now and today, and not something that, you know, putting them on a plan that, you know, where you check back in once a year, but rather let’s figure out how to empower them and train them for short term priorities today.
00:25:08:19 – 00:25:33:11
And that’s something we’ve been able to help with. Absolutely. One of the things we share with with that client was it feels like you’re starting to develop an annual empowerment day where we’ll ask you once, once a year, what do you need? And it’s that conscious effort of making sure that it isn’t an annual event, like you said, but that it’s that it’s a day to day practice that will absolutely build trust.
00:25:33:13 – 00:25:56:22
We’ve got Maria, did you want to add to that or can I ask you a new question? I was just going to add that I totally I totally agree as good. Right. But I think that middle management layer is a really tricky one. I’ve heard it referred to perhaps what good or bad is the messy middle. You know, it’s a really important group in who are the conduits and the organization and they can often get overlooked.
00:25:56:22 – 00:26:16:22
So yeah, focus at that middle level. Management I think is really important. Yeah, and I would say that on to that, assume that they’re not able to always express exactly what they need because or what they need, because they may not know exactly what they need, because that’s never been offered to them. Second thing is they’ve never been through this before.
00:26:16:24 – 00:26:45:19
Right. And they’re being asked to lead in a way that most of us were not trained to do. And so they may not have that toolbox depth to know, I could be doing this or I need this. So they may not always be able to verbalize exactly what it is they need. But listening, as you suggested, truly listening to what they’re sharing and what their challenges are, can help you help them express even better with what will help them now.
00:26:45:21 – 00:27:07:19
Last question. We’ve got a question from Caroline. Caroline, thank you so much. It’s a statement and then a question. Trust is is tantamount right now, as you’ve talked about, for companies that have elevated trust as a core value, is it the right time for organizations to reexamine their values, to add a companies usually have collaboration, innovation, but it’s a new day.
00:27:07:21 – 00:27:27:21
I know we’ve we’ve addressed this to to a degree in one of our previous webinars. Maria Rushing thoughts. Maria, you go first. Tricky one. I would say, you know, trust is a very important value. Where you don’t want to be doing is, is just revisiting values. You want them to be long term, you want to have longevity to them.
00:27:27:21 – 00:27:52:00
So, you know, I think trust is a good value. Yes. Whether you want to think, well, now is a good time to do it, you know, I would look at it in the bigger strategic picture in terms of is it the right thing to do to constantly reevaluate your your values? I think values need to really reflect the organization and what’s really relevant for that organization.
00:27:52:00 – 00:28:15:03
So I would say yes, potentially. I don’t think it’s as easy as to say yes or no. I think it’s always good to look at values, revisit them. You know, have a refresh, think about what we stand for. Don’t be changing your values too often, too regularly. And, you know, trust is important. You know, maybe there’s a way that trust is so fundamental.
00:28:15:05 – 00:28:38:24
Does it need to be a value? Is that what’s needed in order to really elevate trust in your organization? Can it be more of a fundamental pillar that spread throughout? Yeah, a bit of a way of working and expectation, trust me. Thoughts? Yeah. You know, I agree. And it’s such a consulting and it depends. Yeah. So this is what we recommend, but it depends.
00:28:39:01 – 00:29:01:03
No, I totally agree with Maria. But I also think that amplifying trust right now is, is really important because there are so many organizations, because of budget cuts and things like that, the first thing that people are doing is laying off people. And so people more than ever feel like mistrust that something could happen to their job any day now.
00:29:01:05 – 00:29:20:08
So they we do have to amplify that trust and show people we have your back so that they continue to perform. So it may not be rethinking the whole value system. As you said, it really depends on the time. But if there is a way to amplify trust in this moment today for what’s going on in the world, I think that would be really important.
00:29:20:10 – 00:29:41:04
Absolutely. Absolutely. And as we discussed previously, look at that culture. Look at where the culture is and is it where is it letting you down? Where is it failing you? I had a conversation just before this webinar with a with a client when I’m sure I’m not disclosing anything as I think through how I want to share this, I can do it.
00:29:41:06 – 00:30:09:13
And just asking that question of where it’s a very difficult question that we posed previously and and then a new one today of where has your culture failed you and will it get you where you need to go next? So often we lead into the positive, right, That optimism bias, Maria, that you discussed a bit, maybe not exactly those words, but asking that difficult question of where has our culture failed us?
00:30:09:15 – 00:30:27:05
Will it prevent us from getting where we need to go? Next thing. Carolyn, to your point, trust may be one of those elements that truly has to be focused on to get to where you want to go next. RUSH Me and Maria, to your point, maybe, maybe not. Right, But it’s certainly worth looking in through that lens of where has our culture failed us?
00:30:27:11 – 00:30:57:21
And then finally today, that question of how are you eroding trust in media? This is an exercise as it is a team yesterday to ask ourselves, how am I eroding trust? And that is a very painful question to ask it. It catches me off guard as I start to think about it, because then I have to really look at what am I doing even and even though my intentions are correct, as you said, Maria or my doing that may be having the opposite effect of what I actually want.
00:30:57:23 – 00:31:21:18
Let me think about that very, very carefully and develop a plan for action. Folks, thanks so much for joining us for today for the series. In case you missed some of the webinar series, the five part series, we’ve got all of that posted on our website, Daggerwing group dot com. You’ll get a link to this recording and also include link back to some of the previous recordings as well.
00:31:21:18 – 00:31:33:12
So you can go back and check out what miss. Thanks everyone. Maria Russini, thank you so much for today. Appreciate everyone. Take care. Bye bye.
