Transcript
This transcript was automatically generated with artificial intelligence. It’s in the queue to go through a review with human eyes!
00:00:00:00 – 00:01:03:12
Hello and thank you for joining us today for our special webcast, Reinventing IVP, where companies Need to Know to Attract and Retain Top Talent. I’m Stacy Straka, distinguished Principal Research Fellow in human capital here at the Conference Board.
00:01:03:13 – 00:01:29:04
Today, we will be discussing why companies are struggling to attract and retain top talent right now. What are the seismic attitude shifts employees have made over the last 18 to 24 months? And what are the top five truths of a winning EVP or Employee value proposition? And what are the key lessons learned from Fortune 500 clients? And DeGuerin Group’s extensive EVP experience?
00:01:29:05 – 00:01:55:07
This webcast is approved for HCI Sherm and CPE credits. If you haven’t done so already, please click the link in the CEO request pod to sign up for available credits for this event. The pod is located in the bottom right corner of the webcast console. Remember to stay logged on for the entire webcast and be sure to respond to the three little pop ups throughout the program to get full credit to get the most out of this webcast.
00:01:55:08 – 00:02:27:10
Make sure to utilize the engagement tools there located at the bottom of your screen. Using these, you can ask questions to the presenters and download any available resources. Please join me in welcoming our guest for today, Paul TONER, Principal, and Rashmi Shanker, associate principal with the DeGuerin Group. All right. We take it away. Probably think you might be on mute.
00:02:27:12 – 00:02:51:00
Thank you so much, Rashmi that I appreciate that. Apologies. I want to thank the Conference Board for hosting us and thank everybody for joining today. And if you’re joining us live or with a recorded recording afterwards, where you’re all very welcome and we’re just delighted to share what we know about, about what companies can do to attract and retain top talent.
00:02:51:01 – 00:03:12:08
But we’re going to do this conversation a little bit differently than you might expect. So we’re first going to lay out the reality of what we’re observing out there. In our experience working with some of the biggest global organizations. And also we’re going to share a stage you mentioned at the beginning five Truths for creating a Winning employee value proposition.
00:03:12:08 – 00:03:40:10
And based on our experience, what we’ve learned and what we’re seeing out there, and we’re really excited to share that with you. So as you mentioned, my name’s Paul TONER, principal at that great group. Russ Me Awesome. Thanks, Paul. Hi, everyone. Like Paul said, we’re so glad you’re here to join us. I’m Rashmi Shanker, associate principal at Daggerwing Group, and we’ll spend a little bit of time just chatting through initially what we’re seeing in the organization.
00:03:40:10 – 00:04:01:12
But before we do that, a little bit about who we are at Daggerwing, we are a global change consultancy, but we’re focused on the people side of change. And when people say, Well, what does that mean? Know, we really believe that for organizations to change its, you know, you really have to make sure that people are ready to change.
00:04:01:12 – 00:04:31:13
So often, you know, you have organizations that want to change your strategy. They bring in new technology change processes. But none of that can happen if people aren’t ready to adopt the behavior is necessary to drive those different things. So that’s where we focus. Our methods are rooted in psychology and a little bit of bragging. We do have a global top ten rating and most of our clients are Fortune 500 clients and we’ve worked with them across 35 companies or so.
00:04:31:14 – 00:04:52:00
So with all this experience and you know, as worth talking about any piece we want to talk about, just where are we right now? And as Paul and I were discussing this, it’s so interesting that the environment feels a bit like an earthquake. You know, every day there’s five people leaving your company and six people joining and you don’t know what’s happening or why.
00:04:52:01 – 00:05:19:04
There’s new ways of working. People want different things. And for us, we were like, wow, it’s a real reset. It’s a moment in time and the stats are there. They are right there where it says about half the people in the world, which is crazy to me, are considering resigning from their current roles. You know, if you’re like me, then you’re starting to wonder, well, who are my team is which side of this?
00:05:19:06 – 00:05:39:10
But the other factor here is that, you know, 36% of people who quit their jobs in the last six months did so without even having a job. So, you know, it’s not just about trying to figure out who’s who’s going to leave. It’s, you know, getting to the bottom of why is this happening, what’s going on? What is it that’s causing folks to leave?
00:05:39:10 – 00:06:03:14
And from our point of view, it just comes down to something really simple. People’s relationship with work is just fundamentally changing. It’s no longer about those basic transactional factors. It’s not about compensation and title. People want to feel more connected. They want to feel valued, respected at the organization, like they work for a place that’s doing good work.
00:06:03:14 – 00:06:27:06
They want to feel connected to the purpose of the company. And again, when you’re in a situation where people feel that way, it’s interesting what the reality is. The reality is that employees want all of these things, but they don’t feel valued by their organization or by their managers, and they do feel like they’re lacking a sense of belonging at these companies.
00:06:27:06 – 00:06:53:12
And many employers are like, Well, what do we do? And they’re focused on, okay, let’s up compensation, let’s change structures, let’s change titles, let’s get people promoted. Those things matter. But studies are also finding that the potential for advancement, having caring and trusting teammates, you know, a flexible schedule, those things are actually now more important to people than compensation or titles.
00:06:53:13 – 00:07:17:04
So it’s a moment, again to really rethink what we know and if you go into a psychology class, you’ve seen this somewhere and we know Maslow’s hierarchy and we know about the functional needs. So it’s job security or, you know, a steady income, things like that. But that’s what people wanted before. And now we’re like, you know what?
00:07:17:04 – 00:07:41:14
It’s about self-actualization. It’s about those social needs. Making sure that I have that respect. I have a team that cares, things like that. And one of the things we’ve been talking about is in blue collar jobs, it’s kind of a yes and where it is about health and safety conditions. On top of making sure you feel connected to the work that you’re doing and feeling very respected.
00:07:42:00 – 00:07:57:08
One of the things that comes to mind is that example. I think it’s an old example, but, you know, it’s like this idea that there’s two people who are working at a rock quarry, and you ask one of them, What do you do for a living? And they say, I break rocks. And then the other person, you say, Well, what do you do for a living?
00:07:57:08 – 00:08:39:12
And they say, I build schools. And I think that’s what it’s about. It’s about people feeling that connection, the greater sense of purpose to what they’re doing. And we need to make sure it’s companies and organized nations. We’re making that very, very clear. So Paul, over to you. Thanks, Rashmi. So the priorities that employees are bringing to you and how prospective employees and even the employees that you currently have are looking at your organization are shifting and these new priorities are not to say that the other ones, as Rashmi was saying, are no longer important to people, but there’s new ones being added and maybe rising a little bit higher in people’s priority list these
00:08:39:12 – 00:09:05:02
days. So one of the one of the more important ones that we’re seeing is that people want to work for organizations that are not just connected to or have a point of view or a position about social movements or causes, but they have to authentically believe that they’re doing it for the right reasons. So companies can, you know, you can’t fake it till they make it.
00:09:05:02 – 00:09:29:09
Basically what the what they actually do needs to be true and visible to the organization or to the prospective employees. Similarly, people are really looking for a sense of belonging and a real feeling that the people around them at work care about who they are as an individual and understand and recognize that they have a life beyond the workplace.
00:09:29:12 – 00:09:55:05
So really feeling like they not only are seen as a as a person with a complete life, but also when they do come to work that they are welcome and welcomed in just as they are and they’re there and they feel belonging as a result. People are also really looking at organizations now as and try to understand what the new definitions of success could be.
00:09:55:07 – 00:10:27:14
So in the old prior to this or people, people’s typical definition of success is delivering shareholder value. But prospective employees are expecting companies to broaden their definition of success a little bit more by providing shareholder value, for instance, or maybe appeal to the triple bottom line. People profit planet, or even have a more broad ESG framework that they measure their own success by, which is environmental, social and governance frameworks.
00:10:28:00 – 00:11:05:00
In addition to that, you’re being evaluated. Your organization is being evaluated by prospective employees on the on the metric of flexibility, you know, what kind of work life balance attitude you have. You know, am I able to work remotely, for instance, or have flex time or that kind of thing? The flexibility to integrate work in life is really top of mind for so many folks, and they are really evaluating where they end up working based on that and some of these other priorities, purposeful work leading to something greater.
00:11:05:00 – 00:11:40:04
I think we’ve all seen a lot of information about how organizations are trying to make their purpose very clear, make it very known to the world that, you know, we don’t just simply make a product. We create something that has an impact in the world. And that’s really appealing to a lot of folks who want to believe that even there, you know, whatever role they’re playing in the organization, whether it’s at a, you know, frontline level or management level or anywhere else, actually matters and has some impact in the world.
00:11:40:05 – 00:12:13:04
And then finally, people are really looking towards growth. You know, people want to be part of an institution that invests back in them where they can develop as individuals, where they can pick up skills, knowledge capabilities that not only help them do their job better, but help them grow into new roles that additionally help the organization. So as we look at all of this, we know that we know that companies know this, right?
00:12:13:04 – 00:12:37:13
We know that organizations are seeing this and are feeling this as well, and they are responding to change. But the reality is employees attitudes about work are changing much faster than an organization’s ability to respond to that typically. So it’s creating a very challenging environment for a lot of folks or a lot of organizations that are trying to keep up with the changing attitudes of workers these days.
00:12:37:13 – 00:13:14:08
So therein lies the challenge of organizations that need to be responsive, need to change, and need to think of ways to develop new ways of working and new behaviors that align and are associated with all of that as well. So it’s really more important now than ever, more important now than ever that organizations really have are clear about the value they bring, not just to their people, but to the communities that they live in and operate in and the communities that they touch, but also the world as well.
00:13:14:09 – 00:13:42:00
More broadly create in hearing all of that, I think for us it’s like, well, what are we supposed to do about this? There’s a lot going on. The environment is is all over the place. As we’ve discussed, priorities are shifting and so we wanted to talk through today five things that are lessons learned, the truths that we think are really key to an EVP.
00:13:42:01 – 00:14:06:04
And I think this is important more than ever. I was reading a stop that said 65% of candidates stopped going through the recruitment process when they figured that the app just didn’t match their needs. So we know this is really, really important for us. The first thing here is that the EVP has to be authentically yours, and it has to be authentically human.
00:14:06:05 – 00:14:27:04
What we mean by that is there is a lot of jargon out there. There are a lot of things that everybody’s saying is important. You know, there’s a lot of words, there’s hybrid, there’s flexible, there’s growth, mindset, agility, all of these things. And you can put all the words on the website, but people are more than ever talking to each other.
00:14:27:04 – 00:14:46:10
And there’s more apps, there’s Fishbowl, there’s Glassdoor there, there’s just through the process. People are like testing the organization very quickly. And, you know, as it says here, have a very sensitive B.S. meter. So if it’s not true to your organization, it is very easy to be like, well, this isn’t the company I signed up for. Why am I here?
00:14:46:11 – 00:15:05:14
I have to go. And so for us, it’s making sure that even if it’s call you and talk about this one, it’s like highlighting your quirks. Is really appealing. I think that that’s a really cool perspective. You don’t have to say everything in the whole wide world. It’s really speaking to what what you want. Even if it’s highlighting some of your quirks.
00:15:06:00 – 00:15:29:04
Yeah, absolutely. And it’s interesting, we’ve seen a lot of organizations do this really well, and the ones that do it best are the ones that really understand themselves well enough to have an authentic EVP. Where it doesn’t work is when an organization tries to copy and paste someone else’s EVP onto their organization. It just doesn’t feel natural, it doesn’t feel authentic.
00:15:29:04 – 00:15:55:13
And that comes through in how how folks interact with prospective employees or interact with the world and things like that. So it’s really important for the EVP to be authentically your own. So doing the work to understand yourself first is is like step one because of that sensitivity that people have and the fact that it’s really hard to it’s very hard to fake it.
00:15:56:00 – 00:16:18:00
And people are incredibly sensitive and looking very critically at organizations now and they go they’re operating. You know, prospective employees are operating by feel in a lot of ways, too. Yeah. I think the one thing I wanted to address, I don’t know if you’re if you’ve seen this, too. I know you have. So we work together a lot.
00:16:18:01 – 00:16:47:01
But when organizations try to boil the ocean with an EVP, it tends to not work as well as if they find the three or four or five most important things to focus on initially and really go go forward or go public with those. It’s better to have a couple of really solid, authentic things to talk about and to show up as first before trying to be all things to all people.
00:16:47:02 – 00:17:23:08
Yeah, and you know what’s interesting, it’s the EVP just isn’t about, you know, that initial first two steps of the recruitment process. Retention is a part of it, too. So I think if if your list is so large, it’s really hard to accomplish all of those things were, how are you going to be this company to everybody, but rather, if you focus in on those three things then or five things, it’s much easier to prioritize those things and make sure that it’s being felt throughout the employees journey within your company versus it being kind of a one off thing.
00:17:23:10 – 00:17:53:01
But I think we’ll move along to the next one. Yeah. So the your EVP must ladder up to your purpose and strategy as we talked about. Purpose is really important and people are paying attention to why you are in business. But it also must ladder up to your strategy as well. So EVP in Isolation doesn’t typically work, but an EVP that is connected to why you exist as a business is all that much better.
00:17:53:01 – 00:18:14:01
And that’s what we’re seeing in the organizations that really get this right. So it’s a real reflection of your strategy. It isn’t separate from it. It isn’t disconnected in any way. It’s it’s almost like something that accelerates your momentum and gives people that much more energy to, you know, come to work every day and do what they do, what they need to do.
00:18:14:01 – 00:18:35:14
So it does those that get it right or the ones where the EVP reflects the strategy. And we know that purpose is a powerfully magnetic force in today’s recruitment environment, but also it’s a powerful magnetic force in retaining people as well. And I think we want to know our people want to know that you’re taking it seriously, you’re thinking about it.
00:18:35:14 – 00:19:06:09
You, you know, you are taking organizations are taking a minute to step back from, you know, the quarterly goals that you have, which are also very important. And reflecting on how and what the organization is doing more broadly. Yeah. And I think for me, this one I mean, you’ve heard me on my soapbox so many times, but it’s just we get into these situations with clients over and over and over again where, you know, there are strategies over here, but everything related to people is over here.
00:19:06:09 – 00:19:34:08
Or it’s it has to be connected because otherwise everyone’s competing for airtime, everyone’s competing for budget, you’re competing with these priorities and it all has to feel connected and people have to feel like, okay, the organization is on the same page and therefore, like the EVP has the ladder up to the overall purpose of the company where you’re trying to go in the next five years has to match how people feel so that they’re actually able to do that.
00:19:34:09 – 00:20:01:07
So again, I mean, I think that idea of the lab grown PR, the purpose or, you know, it just doesn’t make sense that it has to it has to be authentic to where you’re going as a company and who you are and the problems that you’re trying to solve. I think. Absolutely. Yeah. Perfect. Well, that’s true. Three I know for three, this one is interesting.
00:20:01:07 – 00:20:21:11
You know, we spent some time thinking about this, so it’s like, okay, you’ve, you know, the EVP is authentic. It’s it’s human. It’s connected to your strategy. But. But how do you actually give it legs? How do you get it to keep moving? One thing for us is, you know, it’s really important to look inside first and pay attention to to the narratives.
00:20:21:11 – 00:20:40:11
And there’s this, you know, there’s exit interviews that we’re all familiar with, and it’s like, what can we do better? But it’s also listening to what’s happening. That’s right. Why are people who are still here, still here? What is it that we need to do and what is it that we can amplify? What are the stories that we do want to tell?
00:20:40:14 – 00:20:58:03
And, you know, originally is this truth was we thought about it, okay, we have to create a movement and that’s where we are today. It’s everything has to be a big movement. We want to make a big splash and want it to stick. But, you know, as Paul and I were thinking about it, we were like, you know, it’s not about a movement.
00:20:58:03 – 00:21:21:02
It’s actually about creating movement because an EVP is something that has to respond to changes that are taking place in the organization over time. It has to be a part of the stories that you’re telling which are constantly changing, and therefore it has to be about creating these habits and these, you know, things that people can actually be a part of.
00:21:21:02 – 00:21:49:09
So for us, it’s where are the opportunities that employees get to be a part of your story? How are you listening to their stories and amplifying that? How can you make sure that it’s a consistent brand that you’re pulling through and getting energy from a grassroots program with little wins that are really going to amplify this? It’s not so much I don’t think about that one point in time creating a movement versus creating movement as a whole.
00:21:49:09 – 00:22:17:14
But yeah, I know you well. Yeah, I mean, I think another another reality that we’re we’re experiencing out there when we talk to our clients is that people are exhausted, right? So the prospect of creating a movement feels really, really heavy, like you’re pushing a boulder up a mountain, but creating movement and making it accessible and approachable and impossible is is where is where a lot of organizations are right now.
00:22:17:14 – 00:22:39:03
Let’s just get let’s just get the ball rolling. Let’s just try something and and get some momentum so that, you know, when we get when we start, maybe a movement will emerge out of that. But I think, you know, the creating creating some momentum is much, much better than trying to, you know, create all the momentum all at once.
00:22:39:03 – 00:23:03:07
And, you know, we know that the way to do that is by tapping into the stories that people have about what’s going right in the organization or what has gone right in the organization. I think you could you know, we’ve been deluged with story after story of what’s wrong and why the last two years have been so difficult and challenging and terrible.
00:23:03:09 – 00:23:35:04
But in among all of those things are some really amazing stories of things that have gone right and, you know, the stories of perseverance or resilience or grit, determination, you know, wins when wins weren’t really thought to be possible. Those are those are valuable narratives and stories that can be used to help, you know, start some momentum going in your organization to share with others about why it’s why this why the place you work is so special and why it matters to to work there.
00:23:35:04 – 00:23:56:03
And, you know, we unpack those stories and really understand what it is that causes people to behave that way in the first place. Then you’re really getting to the getting to the meat of it, of what makes your organization special. And, you know, going back to truth, one, making it authentic, authentically your own. I mean, that’s where you find all those things.
00:23:56:04 – 00:24:31:13
Cool. All right. So truth number four. So a culture of belonging and flexibility and growth must be visible and true. Now, we talked about this, Rashmi, and it was so fun to prep for this because what we, what we originally highlighted was a culture of belonging, flexibility and growth, and then lowercase must be visible and true. But actually we flipped that because the visibility and truthfulness of your culture is really, really important and we wanted to make sure we highlighted that.
00:24:31:13 – 00:24:55:06
Of course, that doesn’t diminish creating a culture of belonging and flexibility and growth. Of course that’s that is important and that is what people expect. But if you hide it under a bushel and don’t allow people to see it, then you’re kind of shooting yourself in the foot or leaving things on the table, as they say. So it’s really only as good as as, as, as public as it is.
00:24:55:06 – 00:25:36:01
Right. So the other thing that we talked about, Rashmi, is that is this notion that it has to be accessible to. All right, So you can create a great culture of belonging or at least start the process of building a great culture, but, and sort of, you know, a real great value proposition. But if it’s only applicable or accessible or visible to some people, that is that’s almost like not having one, you know, it really does have to be something that you take into consideration, everybody in the organization and what they bring to the table and what they value for for for working there.
00:25:36:03 – 00:26:00:10
So but that doesn’t mean you have to have it all in one go, like it’s okay to make progress and to be a work in progress. But you have to show progress like you don’t like. We talked about lab grown PR in the background, like someone you know, secretly doing something and then sort of revealing it. That’s not as effective as being open and public and a little bit vulnerable about the work you’re doing to create a great value proposition for your employees.
00:26:00:10 – 00:26:19:12
So it’s, you know, make progress, but show progress as well. Yeah. And I think, you know, that accessibility piece, I feel like it’s home in a certain sense. We we work with so many global clients and we know that they’re often headquartered in certain locations and that’s where the focus is. But then the rest of the company doesn’t see it.
00:26:19:12 – 00:26:53:04
So, you know, thinking through how is this going to be visible to everybody in our company? Is there, you know, when we decide, you know, how we’re going to create belonging, how are we going to create flexibility? How can people have growth? It’s really thinking about everybody in the organization or folks tend to prioritize the corporate office. And then what about manufacturing, How you have to think about all the stakeholders as you’re thinking about this because otherwise it feels very aspirational to parts of the company and it’s not balanced with reality because that’s not their experience.
00:26:53:05 – 00:27:21:02
And so again, it’s really, really crucial, I think, to think about accessibility. How how does it feel? Is it true to the people in the company right now and then if there are pieces of it that is aspirational? I was saying to Paul yesterday to a client who, you know, very tenured gentleman, senior leader in an organization and he had for the first time just been really honest with his company about the last six months.
00:27:21:02 – 00:27:38:09
And he was like, look, I know we’re losing people and this is the reality and here is what we’re trying to be. And I know you’re working harder than ever. And he was so genuine and so authentic. And he just said, here’s what we’re trying to do. And that just went over so well and it changed the mood within that part of the business.
00:27:38:10 – 00:27:58:13
Just because he as a leader, which is really authentic and true. And he said, I’m just showing you my work. It’s not perfect yet, but we’re going to get there. And I think that that’s so key also to just be really honest and true, even if you’re not all the way there and it’s not perfect just yet. Absolutely, Definitely.
00:27:58:14 – 00:28:18:09
Look at the number of five. This is another one we’ve been talking about a lot. Or it’s like, is this is it one and done? It has to keep evolving. You know, even when our clients hire us. Right. It’s it’s not an EVP is not a project that’s just stuck once you know. Okay, let’s do it. Get it done.
00:28:18:09 – 00:28:40:12
Over six months, we’ve defined it. We put on the website. Okay, by we’re not looking. And again, you can’t do that. It really has to be, you know, something that people are paying attention to constantly because the people that are coming into these companies are changing needs, are changing. The environment that we’re operating in is constantly changing. And here’s an example that Paul knows.
00:28:40:12 – 00:29:02:07
I’ll just keep saying over and over again, but we worked with the client over, you know, during 2020 when we were helping them with their EVP. They did a really great job with, you know, listening. They found the narratives within the organization and they developed this beautiful EVP, and then they came back to us a few months later because, you know, that was around the time of George Floyd.
00:29:02:07 – 00:29:24:00
They, and we didn’t really DNI lens on it at that time, so they wanted to adjust it. And I thought that was so bold and brave and it wasn’t saying, Hey, we already spent the resources there, the time was invested, therefore we’re going to stop and just go with this. It was okay. Well, we see a seismic shift in the world and we’re going to infuse that and keep adapting that.
00:29:24:00 – 00:29:56:04
So we want to really make sure that the words and the actions here match demands that are going on in the external environment, that I can go on about this forever. But I love that I it’s you’re sparking a thought about a client that I work with as well. And you know this client as well, but an organization, large global organization that was getting some feedback that it was over indexing and trying to create an EVP to the external world.
00:29:56:05 – 00:30:37:09
Right. Time to show up in a specific way to the world outside. And it they, they realized that and decided they needed to do something to look at the employee value proposition of the people that were in the organization and working there right now. So they kind of launched a re recruitment campaign within their organization to really not just kind of show them that they’re valued and appreciated, but really to listen and understand where they’re at, what what they valued since they had already had some experience working in the organization, what were their stories, What did they see from their vantage point that really made the place special and worth sticking around for?
00:30:37:10 – 00:31:00:09
So yeah, and that that is a great example of how, as you were saying it, it’s really important to think of an employee value proposition as a living thing, as almost a work in progress, something that you’re always going to be developing and adjusting and being responsive to, you know, various things that are going on in the world and inside your organization.
00:31:00:09 – 00:31:26:06
So it’s pretty amazing to be part of, you know, projects like that where where organizations are thinking like that and really, you know, taking the initiative in that way because it it gives me a lot of energy. I know it does. You asked me and it sort of gives me a lot of hope that the folks that are working there are well served by their organization and the is worthy of having them.
00:31:26:09 – 00:31:49:02
It’s really great. Okay. So, all right, we are going to sum up, but I do want to just before we sum up, I’ll put this here is to say, if people have questions, please feel free to drop them in the Q&A area. We’ll take as many as we have time for and we’d be delighted to respond to them.
00:31:49:03 – 00:32:13:13
But also, if you have other truths that are true, that you’ve noticed other things about the EVP experience that either you’re part of or have seen, we’d love to hear what you what your reality is and what you’re experiencing out there in the world as well. So the Five Truths, in summary are EVP is must be authentically yours and authentically human.
00:32:14:00 – 00:32:42:05
Your EVP must latter up to your purpose and your strategy. It must look, you must first look inside to create movement, any movements, good movement forward and creating a culture of belonging. Flexibility and growth really needs to be visible and true for all and then keep evolving. It’s not a one and done. It’s something that always requires a little bit of work, thought and attention as you go forward.
00:32:42:05 – 00:33:06:12
So we’re delighted to share these trends with you. There may be more, and we’d love to hear if there are more that you’ve experienced. So with that, let’s take some questions. All right. Several questions in the Q&A section. There are room for some more, so please keep adding them. One really interesting question is what is it about the pandemic that’s accelerated this earthquake?
00:33:06:13 – 00:33:32:00
It’s a good one. Yeah. I mean, it’s almost yeah, I mean, well, it’s funny because it’s like that kind of question kind of answers itself. But I, I love the the question because I think one thing we tend to forget about is that even before the pandemic, there was a lot of upheaval and a lot of change and a lot of concern about the the rapid change that’s been happening in the world.
00:33:32:00 – 00:34:08:02
Right. So whether it’s the breakneck speed of technological change, whether it’s, you know, environmental disasters affecting one, you know, businesses, etc., etc., you know, change is something that we experienced even before the pandemic. But the pandemic is this watershed moment where everybody was going through the same thing together at the same time and having the same experience. And I think just that fact alone made it just focused everybody’s attention in in, you know, all at the same time.
00:34:08:02 – 00:34:36:14
All at once, all in the same thing. So that’s what made it so particularly poignant now. Yeah. You know, and just the attitudes of of people who decided that, you know, maybe I need to think about my relationship to work. Right. And maybe an organization thinking about their relationship to work, you know, how do we go virtual, how do we create an environment that keeps great people here?
00:34:37:00 – 00:35:00:14
You know, it’s you know, they had to think quickly about how to do that because everything was changing all at once. Yeah, fascinating. I’m going to combine a few of the questions together and some of the folks are saying that never heard of EVP before. Is it new and which department, which team within the company would you work with to develop one?
00:35:01:00 – 00:35:20:11
Yeah. It’s so funny that before I got into this field, I was like, What’s that? Now like? I didn’t know either. But really, if you think about it, it’s the way I think about it. It’s very simple. So as long as companies have existed and have needed talent to their companies, there’s something that you tell these people about.
00:35:20:11 – 00:35:40:14
Well, why should you work here? Come work for my company. I really need you to come here. So it’s I think, been around since the formation of, you know, any business who needs anybody to come work for them. Because all you’re doing is storytelling and you’re really highlighting the reasons why somebody should come work for your company. Why is this a great place to work?
00:35:41:01 – 00:36:06:05
So I don’t think it may be a new term in the last decade or so, but the idea and the concept I think, is quite old. And in terms of who you can work with to create the EVP or I, I think you’ll agree often for us when we do these projects, we work with senior leaders as well as folks in communications are also, you know, we’ll partner with branding teams because.
00:36:06:09 – 00:36:46:00
They will will do a lot of work with because it’s not just about the words that we have to craft, but also the visuals that people see as. They look at the organization. So it’s usually some combination of of these folks. And do you want to say something else? Pull for out another question. I love his answer. I would I would just say, you know, the one I would add to that list, the executive leadership team as well being, you know, the drivers or sponsors of that work tends to make the make that work much more impactful.
00:36:46:01 – 00:37:14:11
It’s a great segway to this next question, which is how to work with a team of executives who don’t really see the need to do any of it. They’re thinking, well, if it’s their time to go, they should just go. Yeah, yeah, there’s plenty of plenty of plenty of convincing that that can be done for, you know, with executive teams and, you know, have a lot of compassion for executive teams because they have to manage a lot of complexity all at once.
00:37:14:11 – 00:37:38:01
Right? So they have they’ve got a lot of priorities that they need to juggle. And it’s hard to think about, you know, you know, how this this particular work play value proposition as a strategic imperative. But it is when you think about all of the everything that needs to happen in order to create the results that an organization is getting, it all comes down to people.
00:37:38:02 – 00:38:04:06
And if you’re not creating a way for people to be at their best and perform at a high level every day and they’re in your organization, you’re kind of you’re kind of missing the point, right? So I think you you really do have to just have folks stop for a minute, think, you know, why people are so important to the ultimate outcome of your business and, you know, when you do, executives get it right, They do it well.
00:38:04:06 – 00:38:31:02
You know, you have to, you know, bring them to that space and have them, you know, stop for a minutes. They’re so busy. But oftentimes they are quite open to the idea once they once they hear the message for sure. So another question here, really interesting one, asking for some specific guidance in a manufacturing environment where it’s difficult to attract and retain employees.
00:38:31:03 – 00:39:00:06
I think that’s so interesting. And I’ve had a couple of manufacturing clients now who I think what happens is often that audience gets forgotten or that group of employees and not forgotten, but they’re treated sort of differently where it’s it’s so important to bring focus to that group because it’s just generally the majority of the organization. If you ask me, it’s like where the majority of workers are, but it’s about thinking about, well, what’s important for these people?
00:39:00:06 – 00:39:28:03
What are their needs? How are we meeting those needs and how are we like because their your bottom line ultimately, too. Right. And it’s sort of like, okay, well, what is it that they need in order to create the environment that enables them to do their work better? How do we tell stories so that you constantly reinforce those messages about why is it that the work you’re doing actually ultimately impacts, you know, your customer or the purpose of the work that we’re doing?
00:39:28:07 – 00:39:55:08
And a lot of that is is is storytelling. It’s listening. I know that when in two instances in particular, when we’ve done what we call discovery, initially, when we start working with companies, it’s we take a look at all the stakeholders and we start listening to understand what’s going on in the organization. Whenever we focused on on those employees, it I can’t tell you how emotional people get and they say, Thank you for asking me.
00:39:55:09 – 00:40:21:03
And I think that’s super important. It’s about asking. First of all, it’s not assuming that, you know, and it’s taking them into equal account as everybody in the organization while doing this kind of work, kind of helping people understand the story that breaking rocks is building schools. It is this over and over and over again and again. We keep that a rock to build a school.
00:40:21:03 – 00:40:39:14
We don’t have a school, right. The value of each of the individual people. And and I just want to underline something we said a little earlier, and that is that in the webinar here about, you know, the Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, you know, four, four different types of jobs, that pyramid isn’t it doesn’t always look exactly identical for different folks, right?
00:40:39:14 – 00:40:56:06
So, you know, folks like in manufacturing job, I did a lot of work with the mountain resort industry with a lot of seasonal workers and things. And, you know, people do they want to get paid, right? Of course they want they want a living wage. They want to be able to, you know, support their families and things like that.
00:40:56:06 – 00:41:20:00
That is a kind of a base level hierarchical need. But also they want to be part of something special, something unique and something something that has purpose. Right. So I think it’s a little bit of both in that case. So it’s those are not easy challenges at all When when you’ve got a very complex and volatile economy going around, going on around your business.
00:41:20:00 – 00:41:51:08
But so they employ value proposition for folks like that needs to appeal to, you know, their their full suite of needs and the full set of priorities that they’re bringing to you. Perfect employee value proposition. We have several questions in here asking what you standing for. And then another one, what’s the average cost to work with an agency to create an and then marketing?
00:41:51:09 – 00:42:20:08
I’m laughing because this it’s in the chair. It’s the parents. We wouldn’t be good consultants if we didn’t answer it. That’s right. At least for for Daggerwing, I think we very much tailor our solutions based on what you’re looking for. So there really is a great range and we work with companies to identify what their needs are, what the appetite is, and we design accordingly.
00:42:20:08 – 00:42:40:03
So there’s nothing says it’s a minimum of this or a maximum of that just really depends on what you’re looking for. And if you have a budget like thinking about, okay, well what might we be able to do to stick to that budget? So I know it’s a not answer answer, but what can I add a little flavor to that as well?
00:42:40:03 – 00:42:56:00
Because I think there’s there’s a couple of there’s a couple of things implied in that question to one is what would what would an agency charge? It’s like, well, I think you can get an agency to help you with the wording and the the look and feel of what your what your EVP is. And that’s great. We’re not an agency.
00:42:56:00 – 00:43:21:03
We’re actually a consulting company that helps folks design and implement that kind of an EVP, because there’s all kinds of behavior change in an organization that needs to happen in order for that employee value proposition to be true and authentic and real for an organization and not just window dressing. So so I don’t know what an agency would charge, but but as a consultancy, we’d be more than happy to help make it real for people.
00:43:21:04 – 00:43:48:10
Wonderful to companies generally puts their EVP in black and white. Should I assume that the overview in a company is about a section of the website? Is their EVP? What do you think, Rashmi I think that’s a good place to look. Yeah, I think definitely there is going to be language that’s, you know, that carries over there. It’ll definitely be on the careers page for sure.
00:43:48:11 – 00:44:14:06
That’s where you see it more and more, I think as we work with different company, everyone’s like social, right? So it’s the language that they’re using on social media. Sometimes we see it on LinkedIn, but it’s it’s kind of embedded throughout. It’s just wherever you see companies talking about, you know, what they’re bringing to both their employees, but also the world, that’s where I would say the language shows up.
00:44:14:06 – 00:45:01:04
But definitely the About section, definitely the careers page are two very key places where you would see this. Yeah, great. Another question about using EVP specifically for retention, any benchmarks there or additional things that you might add? Yeah, I’m going to pull something out. So some stats because you said, you know, any benchmarks with we we’re learning that you know, organizations that can effectively deliver on their EVP and actually decrease annual turnover by 69% and increase new hire commitment by 29%.
00:45:01:04 – 00:45:26:05
And then, you know, another one that I was reading was when candidates view an EVP as attractive, they can company companies can reduce their compensation premium by 50% and get 50% or reach 50% deeper into the labor market. So there are those very significant benchmarks. But if you think about it, it’s a candidates market, right? So people are going to try.
00:45:26:08 – 00:45:46:02
They have all the options right now and companies have to tailor to them, which is I think the point that we were making earlier, where it can’t be one and done. And it has to be true to you because once you have employees working in the organization, if it’s not true, it’s just something on your website they’re going to leave.
00:45:46:03 – 00:46:09:10
And also, like Paul said, the reason we’re a consultancy, because there’s behaviors that go along with this, it’s not just about the words on the page, so it’s thinking through that, okay, what does your culture look like? How are we actually making sure the environment, the ways of working are set up to support the ABC? You know, because people will leave, right?
00:46:09:12 – 00:46:28:08
So they’ll show up and believe what you’re saying on the website, then get a job there and then realize it’s not true. And they’ll go, That’s just the way it is right now. Yeah. Some folks are asking if you could repeat those metrics again, or maybe you could post them somewhere and provide them to the attendees and maybe a reference for them.
00:46:28:09 – 00:47:01:03
They’d be awesome. Specifically regarding the our why and the EVP would be wonderful. And we’re getting some comments here back to that manufacturing environment. In other difficult environments, getting the message to those employees on the front line can be tough. What are some ideas about messaging to frontline employees in the storytelling process of marketing and socializing internally? That EVP Yeah, I can I can start.
00:47:01:03 – 00:47:26:06
Rashmi And you can correct me, but, but the I think there’s no stronger or no more important relationship that a frontline frontline person has than with their manager. And if their manager really embodies and understands the importance of and embodies an employee value proposition, that goes a long way in creating the authenticity that we were talking about before, right?
00:47:26:06 – 00:47:46:03
So that’s not just sort of like a couple of talking heads on a Zoom meeting from, you know, the headquarters, but it’s really real on a day to day basis and, you know, on the shop floor or wherever they’re working. So I think that’s that’s that’s where I think the communication can be remarkably powerful and compelling and strong.
00:47:46:04 – 00:48:14:08
And I also think that’s where it’s hardest is to have those front line managers really, you know, understand the complaint, not that they can’t understand results, really get, you know, bring them along and help them understand that it’s you know, it’s a really important part of the of of of the change work that everybody’s doing and that they have an incredibly important role to play in creating the culture of the organization.
00:48:14:09 – 00:48:35:09
Yeah. And just to add a completely agree with you, I often when we work with with these organizations, it’s interesting because the channels of communication often don’t even exist like so they’ll be like, okay, but they don’t have access to email or they don’t have access to, you know, whatever tools that you’re using to communicate with corporate employees.
00:48:35:10 – 00:48:57:08
And so that’s another thing to really think about is, okay, well, what do we have? Are there monitors in break rooms? Can we send messages there? What are these touch points that we do have? So like Paul said, managers, so, so, so key and how are you like equipping those managers because they don’t have much time. Another organization we’re talking with, they’re on different schedules.
00:48:57:11 – 00:49:19:05
So if I hold a meeting on Monday, it doesn’t mean all my employees are showing up because they’re working hourly and they may come in on Wednesdays. So thinking about, you know, what are small ways that those things can be repeatable, they’re simple. They’re at places that these employees can see. And how do you just take whatever you’re doing for the corporate messaging?
00:49:19:05 – 00:49:40:10
And then also, I’m not going to use the words translate, but sort of make sure that it connects to the work that everyone’s doing within the organized. So how does the ultimate objective of the business or the strategy actually relate to these employees and doing a little bit of that work as leaders and making sure they can see it?
00:49:40:12 – 00:50:15:11
Yeah, great. Another question here, you’ve talked about EVP lettering up to strategy. However, oftentimes the folks doing the strategy aren’t doing the actual change work. So how do you reconcile that? Good question. Well, so I think I think that’s that is a risk. So if the if the people doing the strategy aren’t doing the change work, I think that’s that’s probably the first place where we would want to have a conversation about why is that?
00:50:15:13 – 00:50:49:01
Why is that the case? Because if you know in a true, you know, culture change situation or a change situation where we’re trying to develop an EVP, we know that executive sponsorship or top level leadership support is a key driver of success, of that of an initiative like that or any change initiatives. So if they’re not on board or don’t feel like it’s their responsibility, that is that sort of sets the organization up as a high risk for not having a successful outcome there.
00:50:49:03 – 00:51:09:10
So we would want to stop and have that conversation with those leaders to say, you know, to convince them that it’s really it is their job and it is our responsible and they do need to take it a little bit more, take a little bit more of an active role in the process. And another question is, you talked a little bit about redefining success.
00:51:09:11 – 00:51:48:10
Businesses are redefining success right now. What Does that have to do with the implications of EVP, is the question, and how are they redefining that success? I think that’s again, just a really interesting again, it goes back to sort of the strategy like broader thinking kind of point and, you know, when you’re thinking about redefining success based on making sure that you’re reducing your carbon footprint or, you know, your sustainable sustainability goals are being met, those are important things to share with people who are looking to join companies because that’s what they value.
00:51:48:12 – 00:52:14:02
So as you’re thinking about these different factors that are influencing your company’s strategy, it’s actually really oftentimes because it’s being driven by your customers, it’s also equally important to candidates and more so now than ever. So it’s it’s making sure that those priorities are then being shared, you know, as, hey, this is really important to our company. We’re focusing our strategy, but we’re also making sure that this is like that.
00:52:14:02 – 00:53:00:06
You know, this is a place that values these things, I think is really, really key for wonderful. This is an interesting question. How do you define the evolution of your EVP without being exhaustive? Well, I love that question. So I think it’s it’s how you approach it. I think the the work that you do creating an EVP and the fact that it is an evolving process on its face, just because it is an ongoing thing, people might think, that’s going to be tiring or tiresome because we have to continually reevaluate it.
00:53:00:06 – 00:53:21:06
And but the way I look at it and the way I encourage my clients to look at it is when you evolve your EVP, you get to you, you get to see the organization change in a specific way. And then once you’re at that point, you’ve kind of earned the right to have whatever problems are associated with that point.
00:53:21:06 – 00:53:44:02
You know, like you kind of you have to and it becomes a new and exciting challenge to be responsive to a different kind of, you know, factor that’s going on either externally or within the organization and things like that. So I think people, you know, you can you know, some of it’s attitude and some of it is, you know, persistence and perseverance.
00:53:44:03 – 00:54:26:13
So but I think it’s ongoing. It is ongoing work, and it is something that needs to be tended to frequently. And I think if it feels exhausting, that’s probably good data that maybe it’s time to take a look at it and maybe, you know, see whether the EVP is working for you. So yeah, awesome. So in all of your extensive experience, consulting with companies in building EVP is and watching the successes, managing different obstacles, what are some of the obstacles that you would say are things for folks to watch out for when they start doing it, or typical things that they might run into in that?
00:54:26:13 – 00:54:48:09
Can I share one really quick point? Just like jumping out at me when it comes because it’s like it’s the biggest thing for people. They before listening to the employees, before understanding the organization, they have a predetermined idea of what the EVP should be. So it’s like, yeah, our company is really great at flexibility, we’re really great at belonging.
00:54:48:12 – 00:55:15:03
But then when you actually do the listening, those are not the plus points. And then it’s, it’s like, gosh, like how are you actually going to go from like negative five or maybe 50 to get to 100 versus starting at like zero 1020? And I think that that that’s just the biggest thing to watch out for is like having this predetermined idea of what you think it should be without really doing the listening and the work to figure out what is it that we’re excelling at.
00:55:15:03 – 00:55:40:02
What what employee why are they saying here? What makes us great and being really true, like we said with number one, that this is that always happens to us where they’re like, okay, can can we make it these three things? And I’m like, Well, we could, but it might not be great being open for sure. A lot of that wonderful kind of reminds me of the satire.
00:55:40:03 – 00:55:59:00
There’s a satire newspaper called The Onion. I’m sure a lot of people have heard about it, but there’s one article from a while ago that says, you know, CEO demands, you know, open and caring culture by Friday. You know, like, that’s kind of what came to my mind. Well, that ties in with what maybe a last question are too much questions.
00:55:59:01 – 00:56:31:09
How long is it typically someone or a team of folks to actually create an EVP that can then be socialized? Yeah, I think I think, you know, depending on the, the, the team’s capabilities, it can be, you know, 3 to 6 months. You know, there’s there is a little bit of a, you know, a process on the front end, as Rashmi was talking about or getting that, you know, executive sponsorship and and momentum going on that front because there are a few things that need to be lined up ahead of time.
00:56:31:10 – 00:56:51:06
But once it gets rolling, it can get it can roll pretty quickly, especially if you make it a collaborative process with, you know, with with a lot of stakeholders and, you know, you know, you can almost make it an open, open source kind of effort in a lot of ways, or at least get a lot of feedback and insights and inputs from from a lot of folks.
00:56:51:06 – 00:57:26:01
And so but it’s not not terribly long with a great process. Wonderful. The last question is, how do I find out more? Do you have additional resources? We sure do. We sure do. We have a blog. So do change outcomes. We have tons of resources there. This is definitely a core capability of ours. So there are lots of materials there and ways to even contact us for additional conversations or things that we could.
00:57:26:01 – 00:57:57:12
We could help with. But wonderful and I see both of your emails are up on the screen for Paul and Rashmi at Dagger was Lewin. Please reach out. Yeah, thank you so much, Paul and Rashmi. That was really great. Very informational. I hope you all enjoyed today’s program. If you did, please visit conference hyphen board forward slash webcast for a full roster of additional upcoming webcasts, plus our CEO Perspectives is a new monthly podcast.
00:57:58:00 – 00:58:19:11
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00:58:19:12 – 00:58:49:03
As geopolitical tensions rise, companies are facing daunting environments. The conference Board’s New Geopolitics Hub offers trusted insights for navigating this turbulent landscape. This hub provides information on what the latest developments are in Ukraine, what that means for business environment. Taking a 360 degree approach, the Conference Board will explore what the upended geopolitical terrain means for public policy, for marketing, ESG and human capital.
00:58:49:04 – 00:59:51:07
And finally, join us virtually on April 20th for the HRO Summit. Registration is free for members of the Conference Board. And thanks again, Paul and Rashmi, and thanks to all of you for joining us today. Every wonderful day or evening, depending on where you are in the world. Abi. Thank you.
